Is it a katar dagger ?

[francantolin]

Hello,
Thank you all !! ,
interesting comment about whale blubber ( I didn't know these kind of knives-tools )
Yes the blade is pretty thick with diamond profile,
made for cut and stab like a spear head, but seems really not easy to use !
not well balanced at all, the tip is heavy.
It could be used making large circles moves / dance ? )
( Maybe an early ritual-votive weapon ? )

[francantolin]

I think now about Kerala god dance
or too kalaripayat ?
So many different weapons used in this martial art,
maybe this one has his place in ?

[ariel]

If its blade looks like a Katar, the handle looks like a Katar, and functionally it can be used like a Katar, why should we think that it is something other than just a Katar?

[francantolin]

Amen !

[fernando]

And another Amen .

[ariel]

Hallelujah!

[fernando]

Originally Posted by ariel

Hallelujah!

You mean הַלְלוּיָהּ .

[mariusgmioc]

double posting

[ariel]

Imagine that its horizontal bar is wrapped with thick strips of leather or fabric. Would you change your verdict?

[kronckew]

Marius' comment no. 15 on the earlier post No.12 being a fake may be clouding his inability to envision it with an oval or more ergonomically shaped grip that would allow a user to, in the words of FIF, Index the blade properly.

In contradiction to the historical examples of western and eastern swords that DO have cylindrical grips, and were obviously made that way for ages. Marking down an item they are unfamiliar with and do not grip or use properly is not the fault of the weapon.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by ariel

Imagine that its horizontal bar is wrapped with thick strips of leather or fabric. Would you change your verdict?

Not likely.

It is not only the geometry of the crossbar/crossbars that determine the stability in the hand, but also the extended longitudinal arms that contribute in a major way.
Those long arms are there with a purpose and no matter how flat/rectangular the transverse grip would be, it simply cannot ensure enough stability alone. Without the long arms, the slightest misalignment of the thrust would not only be ineffective, but also can have disastrous effect on your wrist.

I am saying all this because I have small hands and was able to play quite a lot with my katars and got a feel on how they fit in the hand.

Yet, this is only my personal opinion...

[Jens Nordlunde]

Thank you Marius, but I will show you the statue from where the katar, shown as a deawing, in my article origins. Its from a temple from Orissa build in the 10th century.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Not likely.

It is not only the geometry of the crossbar/crossbars that determine the stability in the hand, but also the extended longitudinal arms that contribute in a major way.
Those long arms are there with a purpose and no matter how flat/rectangular the transverse grip would be, it simply cannot ensure enough stability alone. Without the long arms, the slightest misalignment of the thrust would not only be ineffective, but also can have disastrous effect on your wrist.

Marius,
As you can see, there are good and old examples of Katars with very short side projections. One could argue that the long ones might have served as minimalistic gauntlets, but you would agree that those were not very effective. Also, since they were positioned on the lateral sides of the forearm, their ability to minimize bending of the wrist was practically nonexistent. To control for it, one would need rigid support of the dorsal side of the forearm. Indians might have mutated their katars into hooded examples and, eventually, into Patas to correct it.

But, as usual, it was the fighting function that took the precedence.
Short lateral arms or long ones would not change the biomechanics of the thrust, i.e. the stabbing function.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by ariel

If its blade looks like a Katar, the handle looks like a Katar, and functionally it can be used like a Katar, why should we think that it is something other than just a Katar?

It only looks like a katar but it cannot be PROPERLY used like a katar as it will be very unstable in the hand.

Maybe to be used for theatrical performance, or just for decoration as part of a poor man's wedding attire.