Mysterious sword

Albert · 15th January 2020, 07:59 PM

I just found this photograph of the top end of a hilt (not mine unfortunately).
The hilt is of a North Sumatran sewar.
It also has clear resemblences.

DaveA · 16th January 2020, 09:07 PM

I concur with the earlier comments regarding the filigree: Burma.

Regarding the hilt, compare it with this one in my collection. The sword originates from a Dutch colonial collection. I acquired it from a well-known collector who specializes in this region.

The blade is pattern-welded with a nice linear pamor. A single fuller extends along the spine of the blade until the blade narrows towards the tip. The blade is 6.7mm thick at the base with a length of 585mm.

The hilt features silver work (no filigree) with a small bit of damage on the left side. The horn pommel is interpreted as a stylized clenched fist. This is a rare but not unknown motif from the eastern side of Sumatra. Alternatively, it may also be a stylized hulu iku ite.

The overall length (OAL) is 735mm. The sword is heavy in comparison with other pedangs, weighing 727g (1 lb 9.6 oz)

Ian · 19th January 2020, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert

I just found this photograph of the top end of a hilt (not mine unfortunately).
The hilt is of a North Sumatran sewar.
It also has clear resemblences.

Albert, it seems as though the responses are mainly coalescing around a N. Sumatra origin for this interesting sword. From what you show on the siwar hilt, your sword could be all local N. Sumatran work. The sword shown by DaveA (another nice sword BTW) would also seem to support that idea.

Ian.

kai · 19th January 2020, 01:07 PM

Hello Albert,

I'd like to see more closeups of the blade (even if it is rather plain) and both sides of the hilt. Dimensions would be good to have, especially width and thickness of the blade!

From the short gripping area as well as the strongly down-curving pommel, I'd be inclined to believe it comes from Sulawesi; the fairly wide blade is not really typical though. Is it from mono steel?

Another option could be the Banjar/Negara melting pot with pretty down-curving pommels (apparently based on Sulawesi styles, anyway). I haven't seen any carved like this though.

The Sumatran hulu iku ite does not turn down that much.

The scabbard is certainly weird. I believe that the silver is a later colonial replacement, probably done on Java (Sunda or workshops around Yogyakarta have been doing silverwork for other regions for quite some time); it is possible that the silversmith was second-guessing at Sumatra, too.

Regards,
Kai

Albert · 29th January 2020, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Albert,

I'd like to see more closeups of the blade (even if it is rather plain) and both sides of the hilt. Dimensions would be good to have, especially width and thickness of the blade!

From the short gripping area as well as the strongly down-curving pommel, I'd be inclined to believe it comes from Sulawesi; the fairly wide blade is not really typical though. Is it from mono steel?

Another option could be the Banjar/Negara melting pot with pretty down-curving pommels (apparently based on Sulawesi styles, anyway). I haven't seen any carved like this though.

The Sumatran hulu iku ite does not turn down that much.

The scabbard is certainly weird. I believe that the silver is a later colonial replacement, probably done on Java (Sunda or workshops around Yogyakarta have been doing silverwork for other regions for quite some time); it is possible that the silversmith was second-guessing at Sumatra, too.

Regards,
Kai

Total length in scabbard: 69.5 cm
Length blade: 50.5 cm
Width blade: 40 - 42 mm
Thickness blade (near the hilt): 6 mm

More photos will follow.

kai · 30th January 2020, 10:11 PM

Hello Albert,

Quote:

Total length in scabbard: 69.5 cm
Length blade: 50.5 cm
Width blade: 40 - 42 mm
Thickness blade (near the hilt): 6 mm

Thanks for the data/pics!

That's a longer and wider blade than expected (by me); a bit on the thin side though. The blade might be laminated - difficult to verify due to the corrosion; I can't make out any pamor which could have helped to narrow down the origin.

Can you make out any differences in silver quality between the ferrule (with the ellipsoid motif) vs any other parts (especially with filigree and possibly also the cap of the hilt at the base of the blade?

I'd be inclined to stick with my vote for Sulawesi (pommel and possibly blade); my guess would be that (most of) the silver work is modern though.

Regards,
Kai

Albert · 1st February 2020, 12:22 PM

Thank you all for your valuable input!

Ian · 3rd February 2020, 01:08 PM

Albert, did you reach a final conclusion?

15th January 2020, 07:59 PM	#1
Albert Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 205	Sumatra? I just found this photograph of the top end of a hilt (not mine unfortunately). The hilt is of a North Sumatran sewar. It also has clear resemblences. Attached Images

16th January 2020, 09:07 PM	#2
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 432	Pedang palembang from Sumatra I concur with the earlier comments regarding the filigree: Burma. Regarding the hilt, compare it with this one in my collection. The sword originates from a Dutch colonial collection. I acquired it from a well-known collector who specializes in this region. The blade is pattern-welded with a nice linear pamor. A single fuller extends along the spine of the blade until the blade narrows towards the tip. The blade is 6.7mm thick at the base with a length of 585mm. The hilt features silver work (no filigree) with a small bit of damage on the left side. The horn pommel is interpreted as a stylized clenched fist. This is a rare but not unknown motif from the eastern side of Sumatra. Alternatively, it may also be a stylized hulu iku ite. The overall length (OAL) is 735mm. The sword is heavy in comparison with other pedangs, weighing 727g (1 lb 9.6 oz) Attached Images

19th January 2020, 01:07 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Albert, I'd like to see more closeups of the blade (even if it is rather plain) and both sides of the hilt. Dimensions would be good to have, especially width and thickness of the blade! From the short gripping area as well as the strongly down-curving pommel, I'd be inclined to believe it comes from Sulawesi; the fairly wide blade is not really typical though. Is it from mono steel? Another option could be the Banjar/Negara melting pot with pretty down-curving pommels (apparently based on Sulawesi styles, anyway). I haven't seen any carved like this though. The Sumatran hulu iku ite does not turn down that much. The scabbard is certainly weird. I believe that the silver is a later colonial replacement, probably done on Java (Sunda or workshops around Yogyakarta have been doing silverwork for other regions for quite some time); it is possible that the silversmith was second-guessing at Sumatra, too. Regards, Kai

1st February 2020, 12:22 PM	#7
Albert Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 205	Thank you all for your valuable input!

3rd February 2020, 01:08 PM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,515	Albert, did you reach a final conclusion?