Maasai Laiyok seme

tom hyle · 7th May 2006, 12:33 AM

What makes you think yours wasn't redder pre-patination? I've seen pretty old looking ones with remains of red dye in the rawhide; sometimes very faint remains. The association of red with Massai is an old thing. Another matter is that Massai do not, AFAIK traditionally make there own weapons (not s'posed to work iron), so I'm given to wonder about the relation or even identity of Massai weapons with neighboring peoples' the spears are certainly similar, and the swords bear a close resemblance to Watutsi ones (and a vague resemblance, unsurprisingly, to many African swords).

Tim Simmons · 7th May 2006, 09:45 AM

That's a good point Tom. Different peoples in the same region carry related weapons. Unfortunately all the photographs I have seen of warriors with the long type seme are in black and white and personally I cannot recall ever seeing one with a red stained scabbard. My own example has no trace of staining just being the natural tan of the hide. If someone can post a genuine older example with the modern red staining we are talking about, I will get a web cam and you can all watch me eat my hat or shoe or what ever?

An inexpensive but quite informative little book on fighting tribal people in East Africa, an area I find fascinating and rather overlooked is one of those Osprey Publishing, Men-at-arms booklets, number 411, warrior peoples of East Africa 1840-1900. Worth having as it is cheap and really does have good basic info.

RomaRana · 7th May 2006, 05:38 PM

Both maasai and kikuyu carry the seme the only difference being the kikuyu seme is slightly more pointed like yours. I was actually going to suggest yours was a kikuyu seme but the cowrie shell motif on the scabbard makes me think it is maasai.

I have an older style one with a coin dated from 1921 in a red scabbard. I will post pictures when I get home.

The oldest type is the long well made seme in the style you posted. That older style then breaks into around 3 subtypes.

The oldest is the style illustrated in Thompson's through maasai land. I have one which I purchased from Flavio. These date from around 1870-1890. This was during the most turbulent times for the maasai because of the rinderpest epidemic and the Lolikop wars. The style from this period often does not have a red scabbard.

The next subgroup almost have a mix of red and brown scabbards but the construction was very similar to the oldest style. The seme is still long but the materials are much better. These date from around 1900-1950 at the latest and they reflect a new period of prosperity because the maasai teamed up with the British during this period and were able to raid with their support. This period was also during the Maasai civil war.

The third long style is a kind of transitional hybrid. It has similar construction styles, particularly in sheath and hilt, with the smaller style I posted above. these date from around the 1950-1960's

7th May 2006, 12:33 AM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	What makes you think yours wasn't redder pre-patination? I've seen pretty old looking ones with remains of red dye in the rawhide; sometimes very faint remains. The association of red with Massai is an old thing. Another matter is that Massai do not, AFAIK traditionally make there own weapons (not s'posed to work iron), so I'm given to wonder about the relation or even identity of Massai weapons with neighboring peoples' the spears are certainly similar, and the swords bear a close resemblance to Watutsi ones (and a vague resemblance, unsurprisingly, to many African swords).

7th May 2006, 09:45 AM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	That's a good point Tom. Different peoples in the same region carry related weapons. Unfortunately all the photographs I have seen of warriors with the long type seme are in black and white and personally I cannot recall ever seeing one with a red stained scabbard. My own example has no trace of staining just being the natural tan of the hide. If someone can post a genuine older example with the modern red staining we are talking about, I will get a web cam and you can all watch me eat my hat or shoe or what ever? An inexpensive but quite informative little book on fighting tribal people in East Africa, an area I find fascinating and rather overlooked is one of those Osprey Publishing, Men-at-arms booklets, number 411, warrior peoples of East Africa 1840-1900. Worth having as it is cheap and really does have good basic info.

7th May 2006, 05:38 PM	#3
RomaRana Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 58	Both maasai and kikuyu carry the seme the only difference being the kikuyu seme is slightly more pointed like yours. I was actually going to suggest yours was a kikuyu seme but the cowrie shell motif on the scabbard makes me think it is maasai. I have an older style one with a coin dated from 1921 in a red scabbard. I will post pictures when I get home. The oldest type is the long well made seme in the style you posted. That older style then breaks into around 3 subtypes. The oldest is the style illustrated in Thompson's through maasai land. I have one which I purchased from Flavio. These date from around 1870-1890. This was during the most turbulent times for the maasai because of the rinderpest epidemic and the Lolikop wars. The style from this period often does not have a red scabbard. The next subgroup almost have a mix of red and brown scabbards but the construction was very similar to the oldest style. The seme is still long but the materials are much better. These date from around 1900-1950 at the latest and they reflect a new period of prosperity because the maasai teamed up with the British during this period and were able to raid with their support. This period was also during the Maasai civil war. The third long style is a kind of transitional hybrid. It has similar construction styles, particularly in sheath and hilt, with the smaller style I posted above. these date from around the 1950-1960's