16th and 17th century gun screws

fernando · 3rd January 2020, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SchildaBrit

... 2 jpegs sized about 25k uploaded - and nothing appears.

Are you sure ?

SchildaBrit · 3rd January 2020, 12:42 PM

Thanks Fernando! It really did not show up yesterday evening, but since then you have given me the "all clear" and I can make progress.

Now I can finally complete the post.

The two photos show a screw taken out of a target rifle by Franz Xaver Zellner, who is well recorded in Stöckel (with several others of his family).
He was an Austrian gunsmith who died in 1768.

So we may deduce that such screws were in use long after the 16th century (as hypothesised in the photo by "matchlock"). That is the problem with technological changes - the forces of "we've always done it like that" are very strong in such specialist areas.

This oddly shaped "hand-carved" screw is (still!) used to hold the back end of the set trigger block in position, the front end being clamped by the trigger guard (a popular method). The bent head enables it to serve as a fixing lug for this purpose. Presumably that was considered to be simpler than making the trigger baseplate longer, with a fixing hole drilled through it and a conventional screw inserted, as would be the modern method.

At present, the rifle is undergoing its 250-year service in my cellar. Like most of my rifles, it's no museum piece, but the bore is great for its age. "Pure" collectors will cringe, but my point of view is that guns are tools, and non-functional tools are of no use to me. And I thus consider it proper to do what anyone of the period would have done to keep them functional.

I would have posted a couple more photos, but they are over the 1Mb limit and I now have to puzzle out how to reduce the resolution so that I can upload them.

And a great New Year to you all from Patrick.

fernando · 3rd January 2020, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SchildaBrit

... "Pure" collectors will cringe, but my point of view is that guns are tools, and non-functional tools are of no use to me. And I thus consider it proper to do what anyone of the period would have done to keep them functional...

I also do my best to have my pieces (mechanically) functional, as in fact most of them are; although shooting with them is out of the question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SchildaBrit

would have posted a couple more photos, but they are over the 1Mb limit and I now have to puzzle out how to reduce the resolution so that I can upload them..

I am no computer wizard. What i do is, when they happen to be 'too heavy' even within size allowed, i copy them in my computer to a different image application, one that reproduces them with 'lighter' features; or just resize them till they become uploadable... if not too small, of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SchildaBrit

...a great New Year to you all from Patrick...

Same to you Patrick

.

SchildaBrit · 3rd January 2020, 03:21 PM

This is the hair-trigger (D: Nadelstecher) which is held by the lug-head screw in the previous posts. The front end is clamped beneath the trigger guard, and the lug-head screw clamps the back end (where the modern clamp is shown).

It is unusual in having an extra intermediate lever, which makes it extraordinarily sensitive, in spite of the strong sear spring. And all edges are sharp. After all, it's only about 250 years old!

fernando · 3rd January 2020, 03:23 PM

Perfect !

Fernando K · 3rd January 2020, 07:10 PM

Hi
To who wants to know how the "hair trigger" works here is a design of the two variants
Affectionately

SchildaBrit · 3rd January 2020, 08:25 PM

The lug-head screw I presented previously is functionally the same as the 3rd screw in the top row of Michael's fascinating collection.

The 2 hand-made screws shown here correspond to the 2nd screw in the second line of that collection.

They are from a Bern Cantonal Ordnance musket of 1804. Rather towards the end of the period of interest for this forum, but illustrating how traditional methods were still in use at a time when screw-cutting lathes were becoming available.

Functionally, they are much superior to the plain pins often used to hold the front end of the trigger guard or to provide a trigger axis, as these tend to rust to the point of becoming fragile over the centuries, and are a right PITA to remove, like barrel pins.[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG][IMG]

3rd January 2020, 12:42 PM	#2
SchildaBrit Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 33	Now it works ! Thanks Fernando! It really did not show up yesterday evening, but since then you have given me the "all clear" and I can make progress. Now I can finally complete the post. The two photos show a screw taken out of a target rifle by Franz Xaver Zellner, who is well recorded in Stöckel (with several others of his family). He was an Austrian gunsmith who died in 1768. So we may deduce that such screws were in use long after the 16th century (as hypothesised in the photo by "matchlock"). That is the problem with technological changes - the forces of "we've always done it like that" are very strong in such specialist areas. This oddly shaped "hand-carved" screw is (still!) used to hold the back end of the set trigger block in position, the front end being clamped by the trigger guard (a popular method). The bent head enables it to serve as a fixing lug for this purpose. Presumably that was considered to be simpler than making the trigger baseplate longer, with a fixing hole drilled through it and a conventional screw inserted, as would be the modern method. At present, the rifle is undergoing its 250-year service in my cellar. Like most of my rifles, it's no museum piece, but the bore is great for its age. "Pure" collectors will cringe, but my point of view is that guns are tools, and non-functional tools are of no use to me. And I thus consider it proper to do what anyone of the period would have done to keep them functional. I would have posted a couple more photos, but they are over the 1Mb limit and I now have to puzzle out how to reduce the resolution so that I can upload them. And a great New Year to you all from Patrick. Last edited by SchildaBrit; 3rd January 2020 at 12:47 PM. Reason: add text

3rd January 2020, 03:21 PM	#4
SchildaBrit Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 33	An 18th century hair-trigger This is the hair-trigger (D: Nadelstecher) which is held by the lug-head screw in the previous posts. The front end is clamped beneath the trigger guard, and the lug-head screw clamps the back end (where the modern clamp is shown). It is unusual in having an extra intermediate lever, which makes it extraordinarily sensitive, in spite of the strong sear spring. And all edges are sharp. After all, it's only about 250 years old! Attached Images

3rd January 2020, 07:10 PM	#6
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hi To who wants to know how the "hair trigger" works here is a design of the two variants Affectionately Attached Images

3rd January 2020, 08:25 PM	#7
SchildaBrit Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 33	Another pair of curious screws The lug-head screw I presented previously is functionally the same as the 3rd screw in the top row of Michael's fascinating collection. The 2 hand-made screws shown here correspond to the 2nd screw in the second line of that collection. They are from a Bern Cantonal Ordnance musket of 1804. Rather towards the end of the period of interest for this forum, but illustrating how traditional methods were still in use at a time when screw-cutting lathes were becoming available. Functionally, they are much superior to the plain pins often used to hold the front end of the trigger guard or to provide a trigger axis, as these tend to rust to the point of becoming fragile over the centuries, and are a right PITA to remove, like barrel pins.[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG][IMG] Attached Images Last edited by SchildaBrit; 4th January 2020 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Oh no, not another typo!

3rd January 2020, 03:23 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Perfect !