Keris with „sickleshape-blade“ for comments

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you gentlemen.

Yes, I know that book, I've read it, I think I've still got a copy somewhere. Going back some years I sold a few copies of it.

That list of dhapur in the book will possibly have been drawn from one of the many books and leaflets that were printed in late colonial times, there were also a couple done almost immediately after Indonesia became a country. Daya Magic might have a reference for where this was drawn from. When I get time I'll have a look through my copies of some of these old publications --- I have copies of everything about keris that is in the Mangkunegaraan library, all except Pirngadie.

[David]

Unfortunately there is not much of this video that i can understand, but there is quite a bit of focus and discussion going on surrounding the sickle-like keris shown here so i am hoping that those who speak the language will find some useful information here regarding such keris blades.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBOh...S6WMbTzbsCgrJE

[thomas hauschild]

Thanks David. Thanks A lot for your efforts. You are right I do not realy understand so much. Only „one luk keris“. But this is good to hear.

Best regards Thomas

[JustYS]

Hi David,

I've watched the first 8 minutes of the video when they were discussing the 1 luk keris.

Basically what the gentleman (Bapak Heri Saptono) in the video said were:

- He was part of a FB group called: Keris Collectors Global Study Group

- At first he thought the Keris in question was Kuku Bhima

- But another gentleman in the FB group (Mr. David Sorcher?, he was not sure he spelled the last name correctly) pointed out to him that it was a 1 luk keris.

Guess we need to find this Mr. David Sorcher? so that he can explain more in details about this 1 luk keris.


Cheers,

YS

[drdavid]

I think the picture attached shows a 'Luk Siji' (one luk keris), I would be hesitant to call Thomas's piece Luk Siji

[A. G. Maisey]

The only reason for there to be a keris form with a single luk is because nobody has ever seen one.

No legitimate pakem has ever listed one.

I have never heard any respected authority on the Javanese keris ever substantiate the possibility that there is a keris with a single luk.

So the seekers after a one luk keris observe the luk progression from 3 to 11 --- or 3 to 13 and more if you don't think too hard, and decide that, well, all those numbers but the number one is missing, so let's find it.

The mind in balance loves order, but fails to observe that the keris is asymmetrical.

Symmetry denotes order and balance : asymmetry denotes disorder and imbalance.

So --- let's put things in order and discover the One Luk Keris.

But let us consider first:- what place in the hierarchy of the keris does the keris lurus fill?

Why is there a keris lurus, and why is there a keris with eleven luk, and various other numbers of luk, all of which are odd?

Now, if by some chance we were to discover a genuine keris with a single luk, wandering all the way over into left field, how are we going to wear that wonderful single luk keris without offending the sensibilities of every single person who has some slight understanding of the keris?

The Javanese keris is not a bread knife, nor a reaping hook, nor a tool for the cutting of throats.

The Javanese keris is symbolic of the Gunungan, and of Siva, and of the Ancestors, and Mt. Meru and of rank in society.

Some people think of the Javanese keris as a Prayer in Steel, and indeed, this is not far off the mark.

The object that began this discussion is an interesting artefact. It fulfilled in some way somebody's wishes. But it does not even remotely resemble a keris. By all means place it within the body of unusual South East Asian weaponry, but do not think that it might be a keris, because it is not. It might have been at one time, I don't know about this possibility, but it is certainly crippled now if ever it did resemble a keris.

It might be timely for us all to consider just exactly what the Javanese keris is before we start trying to find a home for unusual objects in the ranks of the keris.

In the video that David linked us to, Pak Hery is telling the world about the people who live outside of Jawa who are Guardians of Keris Culture. So let us learn that culture and do at least a little to guard it, let us not erode it with aberrations and guesses with no foundations.

Forgive me if what I have written offends anybody who may read it, but considering the content of this thread I felt that the time had come for me to cease being mealy mouthed and to say what I truly believe.

[thomas hauschild]

A.G. Yes

Sometimes humans tend to name, tag and catalog everything and collectors are sometimes very special.

I‘m happy to got this piece. Looks like good craftmenship. And the „name“ of it , sickleshaped or oneluk or something different........

Best regards and many thanks to all.

Thomas

[David]

Originally Posted by JustYS

- But another gentleman in the FB group (Mr. David Sorcher?, he was not sure he spelled the last name correctly) pointed out to him that it was a 1 luk keris.

Guess we need to find this Mr. David Sorcher? so that he can explain more in details about this 1 luk keris.

I'm afraid that would be mean, though honestly i do not have any memory of the of discussion with Herry in which i would have said such a thing. So i'm afraid that would be a bit of a dead end there.