A North African Yataghan

[TVV]

Sfenoid and Jim, thank you for your comments. I agree that the hilt is very likely a replacement and of course, there is very little doubt the scabbard is. It is quite possible that originally the yataghan had silver mountings (or tin guilt with silver).

As for flyssas, I do think the shorter versions that are closer to yataghans in shape and size were most certainly intended to be functional weapons. They just were not as well made. Part of it was the skill level of the Kabyle smiths, and the other part was the attempt to make the flyssa into a cut and thrust weapon, sacrificing the excellent chopping characteristics of yataghans for the addition of a pointed tip and a more rigid blade.

[Jim McDougall]

Teodor, that would make sense, that in the scope of the 'flyssa' as a type, there would be a degree of the weapon intended to have certain combat capability.
The examples which became a kind of personal status accoutrement of course tended to become more elaborately featured, especially the ones with the long, heavy and effectively unwieldy blades. It would be reasonable to expect that examples in the 'status' category would inspire such elaboration in the competitive sense that such personalization would bring.

While the flyssa itself of course remained an indiginous form within the Kabyle communities in Algerian regions, the yataghan of course, as a form, diffused widely in the Ottoman sphere and with localized variations.
In a sense, I wonder if technically, the 'flyssa' might be considered such a localized variation of yataghan, despite the notably extreme features of its character.

Naturally that notion would likely raise literal screams within the arms classification pundits community but given the ever debated possibility of the influences of the yataghan form in the development of the flyssa, it seems an interesting perspective.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Years ago I bought this two yatagans (pls see picture enclosed) in Tunisian Djerba. Both of them have scabbard encased in a very thin brass sheat (I cleaned and repaired one of them also years ago, it is not too much nice ...). I am sure the brass cover of the sacabbards is of local Berber origin - you can see typical quarter foil motive (the Berbers have been living also in Libya and Tunisia - not only Morocco and Algeria; in Libya and Tunisia they differ Berbers living in the mountains and living on the sea coast ...). In the case of one of the yatagans you can see the remains of the metal handle (it may be silver ?), far-gone by the salty environs (I guess...).

Nevertheless as far as the thimble heel piece is concerned: They used to use the real thimble as a yatagan scabbard chape in Anatolia (especially T-shaped ordinary "village yatagans")

[kronckew]

I have a khodmi from Bou Saada that has a thimble as a chape Looks like a common solution.

[ariel]

Martin,
The crenellated silver plates on the one with mitigated handle look Cretan to me.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Ariel,
yes, it is that Cretan style. And scabbard is North African style ... Mediterranean See, or let´s say the whole area, is simply too small....
(e.g. one of my best qamas is comming from the Libyan Missurata - just because the garrison force during Ottoman times in the city was from Caucasus ...)

[motan]

Hi,
I know the use of a thimble as scabbard tip from Syria. Also the use of thin, decorated brass sheet over wooden core in the scabbard and the pattern of decoration could be Syrian. The lobed pommel design is a feature of Kurdish Jambiya-like daggers, as well as some straight, Kindjal type daggers made in Syria.
Not much to go on, I admit, but I tough that because the North African hypothesis is also not based on much, I could suggest an alternative.
If, as claimed in the original TTV post, the hilt would be made from African ivory, that would definitely point to a North African origin, but to me, it looks like high quality bone, similar to that used in Cretan and other Middle Eastern daggers.