3 Pulwars

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by mahratt

A very interesting point is that the mass rejection of blades begins only with the beginning of the 20th century, when border tribes begin to receive rapid-fire rifles from Kabul.

Well noted Dima, thank you for that key perspective which is of course much more accurate. The sword remained the primary weapon in many distinctly tribal cultures well into the 20th century, and the gun was often even vehemently rejected.

Andreas, thank you for the updates on the physical characteristics and close examinations of the properties of these blades. While personally I am limited in my understanding of metallurgy in these blades, it is fascinating to follow your well explained observations as well as those entering here in the discourse.
Great examples of very integral swords in Afghan history.

[AHorsa]

Hello Gentlemen,

thanks again for the interesting discussion.
It is not easy to catch with my camera, but I did my best to do a photo of the spot where it seems that one layer is a bit loose.

Ariel, you are surely right that from the 19th century on it was mainly monosteel used on european swords. My statement was more pertained to medieval swords and I also know folded steel from some 17th and 18th century swords.

Best regards
Andreas

[ariel]

I see a semblance of delamination and some letters, but ....I may need new glasses...

[ariel]

Sabers and rifles co- existed for a surprisingly long time.

But any new development in military technology eventually kills some older instrument or a tactic. Invention of glacis radically complicated the idea of siege ladders. Tanks killed the very idea of cavalry. And I am not talking about infantry advancing in ranks or wildly running forward. Omdurman proved the point.

“ Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim gun, and they have not”

The battle of Lepanto was won by European galleasses and firearms over Ottoman galleys and bows. Missiles made anti-aircraft guns antiquated. Stingers at their introduction to Afghani mujaheddin were a laughingstock for the Soviet military, but within several months their helicopters and transport planes had to be grounded.

Nuclear weapons... this is another story.....

[mariusgmioc]

Hello gentlemen,

I would like to make a few observations.

Blades made of layers of steel are correctly called "laminated" and by no meaning, "damascus."

Longitudinal cracks in the spine are signs of "delamination" and they are by no means indication of wootz. These cracks just indicate that the blade was laminated.

When the layers of steel and the finishing of the blade are made so that the layered structure is deliberately revealed, it is called "pattern welded steel" and colloquially "pattern welded damascus" or simply "damascus."

Regarding the blades in the original thread, in my opinion, based solely on the photos, it would be impossible to assert their origin. Even with them in hand, I believe it would be difficult to say whether the blade is of Indian origin or locally made Afghan.

It is true that Northern India was housing several centres that were mass producing and trading blades, but blades were also made in Afghanistan and they bore very similar characteristics to the Indian blades.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Regarding the blades in the original thread, in my opinion, based solely on the photos, it would be impossible to assert their origin. Even with them in hand, I believe it would be difficult to say whether the blade is of Indian origin or locally made Afghan.

It is true that Northern India was housing several centres that were mass producing and trading blades, but blades were also made in Afghanistan and they bore very similar characteristics to the Indian blades.

Hi Marius. You're absolutely right. That is why I wrote before

Originally Posted by mahratt

blades may be of local origin

It is impossible to say for sure whether these blades were made in India or Afghanistan.

[ariel]

Andreas,

There are many problems with Afghan weapons.
First, virtually all Afghan pulwars we encounter date back to the 19 century. As such, we lack good signs of any potential evolution . We just do not know how they looked in the 17 or 18, if they indeed changed at all.

Second, swords consist of 2 parts: handle and blade, and those could have been mixed and matched several times during the working life of the sword.

Third, the origin of pulwar handle is apparently mixed: they took the general concept of a Tulwar handle, but there is a twist. Most likely, they took as an inspiration Indian handle from the 16 century or earlier that was shown in the Hamzanameh: cup like pommel without a lid. You can find the only living example in “ Hindu arms and ritual” by Elgood. It is shown there in the chapter about 4 important sword, and belongs to Brian Isaac. Almost certainly, this idea came from South India, and we can see it in N. Sumatran Piso Podang.Then they added a lid to the cup. Also, the quillons came from Persian tradition. And at the end they made it all iron. Rather mad olio, isn’t it? Jens in his book shows a Tulwar with brass handle of NW India ( ??) or even Afghanistan without a lid ( pp.321-3) . I have a much more “Afghani” looking brass handle dating likely to 17 century. But it is very difficult to build a case on so few examples.

Fourth, NW India retained the “ Hamzanameh” - like idea, but the cup became more shallow. I have two of those. In the rest of the country the pommel became flat.

Fifth, the blade. Some came from Persia, and they were usually wootz.
The rest by and large had “ Indian ricasso”, so by default we are forced to suspect their Indian origin or an Afghani imitation of an Indian original. There are very few features allowing us to suggest true Afghani origin: they tend to be more narrow and thick. Perhaps, the only one that is a better indicator, is their system of fullers. Afghani blades tend to have a horizontal segment close to the handle giving the fullers a box-like appearance. Also, they very often have several very thin fullers of different lengths close to the spine, and those are interrupted by almost triangular flat panels.

Lastly, let’s not forget that a large population of Pashtuns live in what currently is Pakistan ( formerly colonial India). Thus, the question whether a particular sword is Afghani proper or NW Indian acquires political dimensions.

Now, after all those equivocations, do you really want a yes or no answer?:-)

I would like to thank Brian Isaac and Jens Nordlunde for many years of insights and suggestions and for teaching me the fine points of analysis. They were beyond helpful.

[Battara]

Although not my area of expertise, I do want to point out the possibility of the 3rd pulwar blade (bottom of picture) having a scarf weld. The geometry of the curve is "broken" in the middle and a polish and etch might show this.