Kaskara thoughts, please.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Edster

I think in the included link the copper was pored rather than inlayed cold. Also, we have at least three kaskara with the same copper treatment into Kull swords, plus the takubas previously noted. This suggests to me a common source. It would have to be a shop capable of melting copper, likely a jewelry. Since we have takuba blades, maybe the shop was in Tunis, and your kaskara blade was traded into Sudan, likely Darfur. This is all speculation, but sounds reasonable.

A final question remains; WHY? Why would an importer or jeweler do this on a wholesale basis. Would potential purchasers consider them special?

Yes, it mimics European latten work on blade marks which I have detailed on various takouba before. Just two examples are attached.

I think as well it was likely done in bulk in a workshop for precisely this reason, as well as the talismanic properties

[Jim McDougall]

I think we can safely say this is a Kull blade, and I hope Iain and Ed will agree as they are the true authorities on these swords here.
It seems that in the many years I have been fascinated by these kaskara, I have seen these latten (copper or brass filled marks) in a good number of their blades, and typically with the cross and orb, if not with the lion as well.

The fly mark is indeed for Kull (Bezdek, 72.73.74) and suggests the c. 1847+ date. It does seem that there was a distinct market for blades, and even crossguards in the third quarter + to the Sudan (Les Soudan: ses rapport aveck commerce European, 1871). I do not have more on citing this source but I know Iain has it.

In one reference which I think was Slatin (Rudolf Slatin, who was governor general in Darfur in 1882) who surrendered to Mahdist forces in 1883 and was in captivity for 11 years...….mention is made of swords, which were being brought in from Austria. There were some with double head eagle (Holy Roman insignia of Austro-Hungary) but I feel sure that mention was made of the cross and orb and the lion on numbers of these. Naturally these would be presumed of German origin.
In references such as Robb (1924,describing Masri blades with lion and cross and orb) as well as Briggs (1965) the presence of these distinctly marked blades is well established.

The cross on the cross guard center has typically been regarded as a Darfur affinity from the post Khalifa period or Ali Dinar period of early 20th but references show it was used in Sudan prior to that.

If I were to imagine the trajectory of these clearly Kull blades (so marked with fly) I would agree that an entrepot in North African port with the facilities for melting copper/brass as suggested by Ed and Iain, likely applied the talismanically oriented devices on the blades . These then entered the trade networks which clearly went to varied centers including Darfur, where seen by Slatin.

In all, a remarkable sword regardless of its hilt condition, and beautifully represents these historic times and events in the Mahdiyya period.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I think we can safely say this is a Kull blade, and I hope Iain and Ed will agree as they are the true authorities on these swords here.
It seems that in the many years I have been fascinated by these kaskara, I have seen these latten (copper or brass filled marks) in a good number of their blades, and typically with the cross and orb, if not with the lion as well.

The fly mark is indeed for Kull (Bezdek, 72.73.74) and suggests the c. 1847+ date. It does seem that there was a distinct market for blades, and even crossguards in the third quarter + to the Sudan (Les Soudan: ses rapport aveck commerce European, 1871). I do not have more on citing this source but I know Iain has it.

In one reference which I think was Slatin (Rudolf Slatin, who was governor general in Darfur in 1882) who surrendered to Mahdist forces in 1883 and was in captivity for 11 years...….mention is made of swords, which were being brought in from Austria. There were some with double head eagle (Holy Roman insignia of Austro-Hungary) but I feel sure that mention was made of the cross and orb and the lion on numbers of these. Naturally these would be presumed of German origin.
In references such as Robb (1924,describing Masri blades with lion and cross and orb) as well as Briggs (1965) the presence of these distinctly marked blades is well established.

The cross on the cross guard center has typically been regarded as a Darfur affinity from the post Khalifa period or Ali Dinar period of early 20th but references show it was used in Sudan prior to that.

If I were to imagine the trajectory of these clearly Kull blades (so marked with fly) I would agree that an entrepot in North African port with the facilities for melting copper/brass as suggested by Ed and Iain, likely applied the talismanically oriented devices on the blades . These then entered the trade networks which clearly went to varied centers including Darfur, where seen by Slatin.

In all, a remarkable sword regardless of its hilt condition, and beautifully represents these historic times and events in the Mahdiyya period.

Yes Jim, I would not dispute a Kull attribution for the blade and a mid 19th century dating. The guards are still a bit of a mystery in that we know they were made locally but have the one odd reference to them being imported as well.

[mross]

Finally got the full length to go. I know there is a better full length shot, the photos of the seller are much better than mine, but this is next to a yard stick for size reference.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by mross

Finally got the full length to go. I know there is a better full length shot, the photos of the seller are much better than mine, but this is next to a yard stick for size reference.

Yep, that's the usual blade size, these are very much of a size, although the exact length of fullers etc seems to vary a little due to the hand made nature. Given the extensive use of water powered trip hammers and grind wheels, these were something that could be churned out in large numbers.

[Edster]

Iain,

I concur with the Kull blade attribution, but can't agree on the notion that the guard may have been imported from Europe. Here's why.

We have only two references to imported guards; your French one and an 1871 observation by F-G Garnier that German blades and GUARDS were imported to the Suakin port from Egypt.

We don't know their design. material and appearance of these purported imports. With the exception of the copper alloy cast grips often seen on Thuluth swords (see attachment), I have never never seen a kaskara with a guard other than the traditional 4-piece forge welded design. Also, I don't know if the Thuluth guard has a slot or how the blade, guard and grip are secured together.

The kaskara's method of securing/wedging the blade, grip and guard into a unified whole seems to me to be unique; at least I'm not aware of other ethnic origin type swords secured in a similar manner.

I understand that European guards were made with a central slot that fit over the tang as shown in Oakeshott's styles. Maybe Arabic, Persian and Indian were similar as well. I just don't know.
https://myarmoury.com/feature_oakeshott4.html

The quillon flares are wide and first rate, though not as extreme and as the Ali Dinar regalia & gift swords produced apparently only in his workshops during his reign (1899-1916). I doubt that European workshops would bother to make a 4-piece forge welded design with flared quillons just as an extra export Sudanese market item when a must cheaper cast copper alloy unit may work as well. I understand the one-piece kaskara guard innovation was not developed until c.1940.

Best regards,
Ed

[Jim McDougall]

Just going through piles of notes I finally excavated here in the bookmobile, and found some interesting passim notes.

First I am inclined to agree on the lack of substantial evidence for the import of guards, that single reference (1871)does not seem adequate to be convincing. Still the
idea of Solingen producing blades specifically for export to markets in North Africa seems quite logical. In notes I found a reference Artzi appears to have made suggesting just that in 2005, but I cannot find more detail other than that note.

I. Palme ("Travels in Kordofan" ) notes that the lion and cross and orb were most popular in Darfur. I am trying to find the book that has reference to the blades seen in Darfur in 1880s which at that time the author suggested blades were coming in from Austria. I think it was Slatin, and it seems the lion and cross and orb were mentioned. Naturally these would have been Solingen blades.

The application of the cross and orb and lion were probably as Iain has suggested, talismanic versions of European marks which became perceived as power or magic . Briggs notes (p.40) that such copper marks were applied by natives, and by referencing Henri Lhote (1954, p.9-12).

While many of these notes apply to Taureg weapons, the conventions and superstitious perspectives certainly transmitted via the trade networks just as the blades into Sudanese context.
We know through Briggs that the fly, as well as standing lion and cross and orb were found on Taureg chiefs blades (Raidera and Adembar, 1917, near Agades). The Briggs reference here was Gabus (1958).

The lion and fly were also found on blades in Asmara, Eritrea.

Clearly the blades using these markings were well known and diffused through trade networks for some time. Kull's active period in Solingen ended c. 1860 so these blades circulated for generations.

Returning to the copper/brass used in application of these markings, apparently there was an apotropaic value which had to do with neutralizing the potential for the blade breaking ("Aspects of the Use of Copper in Pre Colonial West Africa", E. Herbert, Journal of African History, Vol. 14, #2, 1973, p. 179-94).
While obviously here referring to West Africa, the concepts easily spread trans Sahara.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Iain

Yes Jim, I would not dispute a Kull attribution for the blade and a mid 19th century dating. The guards are still a bit of a mystery in that we know they were made locally but have the one odd reference to them being imported as well.

Thanks very much Iain!