Twist core fullered blade moro kris for id please

[kai]

Hello Gustav,

IMHO a topographic etch can also develop on blades that are (gently) kept in polish; this does seem to be quite common with older Bugis-influenced blades. I rather doubt that any topographic etch that leaves a porous and ragged surface (as seen on blades that have been treated according to tastes prevailing in Jawa for the last, say, 200 years or so) have ever been popular with any Moro group.

My comment was more directed to Moro blades taken to the US: there certainly were quite some GIs and later generations of collectors who were ingrained to keep blades clean and shiny which most likely resulted in overzealous "cleaning" of many acquired pieces. It's not that rare to have twistcore blades with pretty smooth surface; I suspect that a good portion of these are the result of misguided attempts outside the originating culture rather than representing any "original" condition nor Moro cultural preferences...

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Just to point out the obvious: The selut does not fit the hilt. Thus, this ensemble has certainly been fiddled with and we only have the blade to go by. (Since keris fittings can be easily exchanged, being cautious if not paranoid is standard practise when appraising these blades, anyway.)

Even larger closeups from both of the assymetrical sides of the blade would be great! (Please make sure to take them directly from above and with lighting to avoid shadows as much as possible!)

Regards,
Kai

[chiefheadknocker]

Originally Posted by kai

Just to point out the obvious: The selut does not fit the hilt. Thus, this ensemble has certainly been fiddled with and we only have the blade to go by. (Since keris fittings can be easily exchanged, being cautious if not paranoid is standard practise when appraising these blades, anyway.)

Even larger closeups from both of the assymetrical sides of the blade would be great! (Please make sure to take them directly from above and with lighting to avoid shadows as much as possible!)

Regards,
Kai

Hi Kai
i have taken a couple more pictures , it very difficult to get a good clear one ,
heres my attempt,
Thanks for evryones comments and input regarding this blade , im learning alot !

[Rick]

I doubt that this one was over zealously polished by someone outside the culture.

Looks like I have to do a little polishing though.

[Battara]

Many very early kris had round tangs. I agree with Gavin - not Javanese/Bali but Moro, and perhaps one of the earliest I've seen. Thank you again for posting this. Looks better than before.

It is also possible that if it has twist core, the pattern might be subtle and not so distinct. I have one from around 1800 (my estimate) that fits this catagory.

[chiefheadknocker]

Hi , when i first bought this blade i never though it could be javanese /bali , my first intsinct was moro , im no expert and so will have to go with your judgment and thanks to everyone who has put some input into solving this one , i now have the task to find an antique hilt somewhere if i ever find one at all

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by chiefheadknocker

... , i now have the task to find an antique hilt somewhere if i ever find one at all

This could need a very long time! I still look for a pommel only for this kris since this thread posted: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=archaic

Regards,
Detlef

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Gustav,

IMHO a topographic etch can also develop on blades that are (gently) kept in polish; this does seem to be quite common with older Bugis-influenced blades. I rather doubt that any topographic etch that leaves a porous and ragged surface (as seen on blades that have been treated according to tastes prevailing in Jawa for the last, say, 200 years or so) have ever been popular with any Moro group.

My comment was more directed to Moro blades taken to the US: there certainly were quite some GIs and later generations of collectors who were ingrained to keep blades clean and shiny which most likely resulted in overzealous "cleaning" of many acquired pieces. It's not that rare to have twistcore blades with pretty smooth surface; I suspect that a good portion of these are the result of misguided attempts outside the originating culture rather than representing any "original" condition nor Moro cultural preferences...

Regards,
Kai

Kai,

topographical etch is described by Newbold in 1839 an is absolutely common thing for Bugis influenced or genuinely Buginese blades with pamor. I would say, on most Moro Kris with twistcore pattern the center panel displaying twistcore will be more or less strongly topographically etched.

To polish a topographically etched twistcore panel until it's absolutely even is a hell of a work even for GI's and collectors obsessed with blade polishing, and after that procedure most of the twistcore will be gone, or you are gone through to other side of the (twisted) bar and that results in quite strange patterns.

A Moro blade with absolutely smooth twistcore pattern is something quite rare and probably will be from a period in which the Pamor wasn't commonly topographically etched. There are even a lot of archaic blades with straight Gonjo, which will be topographically etched, see the pic.

Here a thread with a topographically etched archaic Moro blade:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17894

(If I remember correctly, Ron's example here with smooth twistcore also has a round tang.)

That would possibly place the CHK's blade even earlier as those.

Regards,
Gustav