Frontier Arithmetic: The Afghan Jezail

[kronckew]

The Sudanese Hadendoa were referred to in racist insults as 'Fuzzy-Wuzzys'.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Jezail.


To fully return to the weapon Please See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-aEWZrTibE

An excellent couple of points are brought out on calibres of these weapons and wear proving the age of originals opposed to newly made examples often seen in souks in Afghanistan today.

[David R]

Originally Posted by kronckew

The Sudanese Hadendoa were referred to in racist insults as 'Fuzzy-Wuzzys'.

Not so much an insult, more a semi- affectionate description. If you want to see insults, look up what 19th C squaddies called their officers.

[Jim McDougall]

Interesting notes on some of the figures in these regions in Afghanistan of the period, and it is understandable that emotions and perspectives run deep, especially as warfare and combative situations leave deep scars. I have not been nor served in Afghanistan, but I have a son in law; son and grandson who have, and I know Ibrahiim has.

With that I was even a bit apprehensive in sharing the gun I acquired with them, but keeping objective and toward the unique nature and character of the weapon itself has been the primary outcome, so hoping to maintain that.

Can anyone share more on the locks on these with closeups and insights on them so as to put together a bit of identification compendium?

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Can anyone share more on the locks on these with closeups and insights on them so as to put together a bit of identification compendium?

Of course, first i think your lock is an Afghan copy decorative or not i don't know.
Second i think Elgood mentionned somewhere that British had a factory in Persia and then many locks are English made in Iran...
It would explain the quantities found in Afganistan.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Kubur! and I am inclined to agree, my example does appear to be an Afghan copy, it is not nearly as well executed as the example in the photo (with red background) which is deemed an authentic British lock.
I very much appreciate you sharing this page from Elgood, which I do not have with me presently.
Interesting that the British had manufacturing involvement in Iran, just as they did in Afghanistan with the Machin Khana in Kabul. At the Kabul factory though they did not produce spuriously marked locks etc and the factory had their own use of the Afghan royal stamp.

The spuriously marked locks seem to have come from the independent tribal artisans in Khyber locations such as Darra Khel and others.

[Victrix]

Interesting rifle Jim! These Jezails are quite exotic and were produced all over I think. And many parts were likely replaced during their lifetime.

I found this article useful when researching my jezail: http://www.armscollectors.com/darra/afghanold.htm

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Interesting rifle Jim! These Jezails are quite exotic and were produced all over I think. And many parts were likely replaced during their lifetime.

I found this article useful when researching my jezail: http://www.armscollectors.com/darra/afghanold.htm

Thank you so much for the kind note !!!
These truly are exotic and attractive, and it does seem they were often reworked and had very long working lives. I honestly wish I could display it, but the bookmobile has little space for such mounting.

The link you have added is an absolutely fascinating and wonderful article which goes exactly in the direction I have hoped to lead this thread.....perfect addition
I have made many notes over the years on East India Co. gunlocks, mostly from research on the bale marks of the Company, and had some interesting communication with David Harding back when he was completing his volumes "Small Arms of the East India Company 1600-1856" (1999).
I sure wish I would have gotten a copy then (three volumes at first, another later).

It seems there have been other articles which show how to recognize Afghan copies from originals, but still searching.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Of course, first i think your lock is an Afghan copy decorative or not i don't know.
Second i think Elgood mentionned somewhere that British had a factory in Persia and then many locks are English made in Iran...
It would explain the quantities found in Afganistan.

Here is the full section relating to EIC guns made in Tabriz.(From Firearms of the Islamic World in the Tareq Museum Kuwait by Elgood).
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Tabriz was not the only place in Persia where these guns were made, but can not remember where I read it.
Also an Afghan pistol which is locally made. I do not wish to detract or confuse the current theme of this thread, so it is only posted for interest only and not for comment.
Stu

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Interesting notes on some of the figures in these regions in Afghanistan of the period, and it is understandable that emotions and perspectives run deep, especially as warfare and combative situations leave deep scars. I have not been nor served in Afghanistan, but I have a son in law; son and grandson who have, and I know Ibrahiim has.

With that I was even a bit apprehensive in sharing the gun I acquired with them, but keeping objective and toward the unique nature and character of the weapon itself has been the primary outcome, so hoping to maintain that.

Can anyone share more on the locks on these with closeups and insights on them so as to put together a bit of identification compendium?

Hi Jim,
Here are pics of the lock of the second jezail shown in my pics. This gun has no trigger guard (as made) and the lock bears the heart shaped bale mark of the EIC, but not the rampant lion. I would class this lock as "genuine" as the lock parts are fixed with screws rather than peened. When I get a moment I will post pics of the other locks.
Stu

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Jim,
Here are pics of the lock of the second jezail shown in my pics. This gun has no trigger guard (as made) and the lock bears the heart shaped bale mark of the EIC, but not the rampant lion.
When I get a moment I will post pics of the other locks.
Stu

Excellent Stu!!! That is exactly what I am trying to gather here, close ups and detail on these locks.
It seems the rampant lion came in around 1808 with the EIC but as always exact dates are unclear.

The EIC heart seen in your example here has rather than the quartered heart, what is known as the 'flaunched' heart, which has curved lines rather than quarters.
I had always thought that the VEIC stood for Venerable East India Co.
but I learned from David Harding that it was actually United East India Company (or to that effect as the 'U' was seen as a 'V' in those days).

It is amazing to me, and pretty exciting, that the Afghans so thoroughly copied these British markings from the many Brown Bess they obtained during the long years of campaigns in these rugged and vast regions.

Thanks very much for the great examples you are adding here.
Also again for the notes on the Sindhi (Baluch) versions of these guns.

It is my impression that it is hard to accurately define these as from Sind or Baluchistan as not only are these areas unclearly defined geographically, but the tribal diffusions are complicated. Simply more that makes the study of the arms of these regions so fascinating.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Just to add to the map equation where Baluchistan is shown as one entity which would be somewhat dissolved in the aftermath of the forming of Pakistan and where the western border of Baluchistan then straddled the Persian border so now it is quarter in Persia and three quarters in Pakistan.. Politics to one side; here is the map.

Note.Baluchi tribesman shown (although pictured out of area by the artist simply using a bit of blank map to illustrate them) doing what all tribals in the region did with their Jezails using high positions for defence and plunging fire at long range..