Keris with nice Naga Kinatah blade for comments

David · 7th July 2019, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

IMVHO this blade is considerably older than the 19th c.; very good quality forging as well as sculpturing/kinatah, too.

The blade, selut, and hilt are a really fitting ensemble and may well be original.

Kai, i agree with most of your assessment, but i am curious what leads you to believe that this blade is "considerably" older than 19th century and also what you mean when you say "considerably".
Also, i see a mendak here, albeit an unusual one, not a selut.

A. G. Maisey · 8th July 2019, 05:20 AM

I think I can see a nice older keris with a very nice hilt, but for a keris that presents as this one does I am not able to give any further opinion on the blade without holding it in my hand and subjecting to microscopic examination.

The hilt is very nice indeed.

Jean · 8th July 2019, 09:01 AM

Well, everybody agrees that this a very nice and rare old kris!

The blade was over-cleaned (mechanically?, some rust spots are still visible) but not etched recently I think. Regarding its age, 19th century starts on year 1800 so I doubt that it is "considerably" older.
I would have hoped that Alan could say a little more about this piece even if it is difficult from the pictures.
Regards

Sajen · 8th July 2019, 09:15 AM

Hello Séverin,

Beautiful keris! I am a little bit jealous.

I think that the sarung fit the blade well enough. Regarding the age, certainly 19th century but could be older, who knows.

Please turn the hilt a little bit more to the left.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 8th July 2019, 09:31 AM

Jean, I avoided the use of the word "old", I used "older" instead.

Frankly I'm troubled by two things, the pamor and the type of applied gold.

It is absolutely impossible for me to form an opinion on this keris from a photograph.

Jean · 8th July 2019, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Frankly I'm troubled by two things, the pamor and the type of applied gold.

Thank you Alan. As a French I am not famliliar with the term "older" as we only know it as "older than" (Harrap's dictionary).
Could you please elaborate a bit (in broad terms) about what troubles you with the pamor and applied gold, and does it affect your age estimate or anything else about this piece?
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 8th July 2019, 10:57 AM

Jean, I apologise for being unable to comment further.

I have already said twice that I will not comment on a keris like this on the basis of photos, and I am not going to hang out a string of hypotheticals that would need more explanation than I am prepared to give in a forum that is open to the whole wide world.

I can understand that use of "older" in this way could be confusing. I'm sorry. You could think of it like this:-

an older vehicle, an older person, an older form of speech, an older type of cooking.

it is a general comparison, we are not saying that the vehicle is necessarily an "old" vehicle, but rather that it is no longer a new vehicle.

My use with this keris is in the same sense, it is no longer a new keris, it is an older keris, but I have pulled back on calling it straight out an old keris. Why?

Because from a photo cannot tell that.

I'm afraid that that is where I stop.

8th July 2019, 05:20 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	I think I can see a nice older keris with a very nice hilt, but for a keris that presents as this one does I am not able to give any further opinion on the blade without holding it in my hand and subjecting to microscopic examination. The hilt is very nice indeed.

8th July 2019, 09:01 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Well, everybody agrees that this a very nice and rare old kris! The blade was over-cleaned (mechanically?, some rust spots are still visible) but not etched recently I think. Regarding its age, 19th century starts on year 1800 so I doubt that it is "considerably" older. I would have hoped that Alan could say a little more about this piece even if it is difficult from the pictures. Regards

8th July 2019, 09:15 AM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,333	Hello Séverin, Beautiful keris! I am a little bit jealous. I think that the sarung fit the blade well enough. Regarding the age, certainly 19th century but could be older, who knows. Please turn the hilt a little bit more to the left. Regards, Detlef

8th July 2019, 09:31 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Jean, I avoided the use of the word "old", I used "older" instead. Frankly I'm troubled by two things, the pamor and the type of applied gold. It is absolutely impossible for me to form an opinion on this keris from a photograph.

8th July 2019, 10:57 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Jean, I apologise for being unable to comment further. I have already said twice that I will not comment on a keris like this on the basis of photos, and I am not going to hang out a string of hypotheticals that would need more explanation than I am prepared to give in a forum that is open to the whole wide world. I can understand that use of "older" in this way could be confusing. I'm sorry. You could think of it like this:- an older vehicle, an older person, an older form of speech, an older type of cooking. it is a general comparison, we are not saying that the vehicle is necessarily an "old" vehicle, but rather that it is no longer a new vehicle. My use with this keris is in the same sense, it is no longer a new keris, it is an older keris, but I have pulled back on calling it straight out an old keris. Why? Because from a photo cannot tell that. I'm afraid that that is where I stop.