Yet another wotsit.

Jim McDougall · 27th June 2019, 03:57 AM

Finally found this image of a Chinese (presumably martial artist) man with two of these long weapons used in pair.

kronckew · 27th June 2019, 07:50 AM

had to rename that to add the .jpg extension.

They look like a chinese sword breaker (Gan/Garn) posted elsewhere here.

A overly lengthy Chinese demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SykZHMsCIfU

your painting from above and that breaker:

Jim McDougall · 28th June 2019, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

had to rename that to add the .jpg extension.

They look like a chinese sword breaker (Gan/Garn) posted elsewhere here.

A overly lengthy Chinese demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SykZHMsCIfU

your painting from above and that breaker:

Wayne thank you for the adjustment

I sort of missed doing that .
Good observation on the breaker, and very well might be, I just saw a guy holding two straight 'bladed' things and thought of the two handed posture.

Great pic of the red 'showboat'!! Really appreciate the dimension of these weapons in these contexts.

kronckew · 28th June 2019, 07:40 PM

More red 'Show-boat' stuff:

Note the Wing Chun kung-fu ''mok yan chong'' practice tree on the bow of the model. The lady is one of the few Chinese opera stars of her age (most were actually men in drag) from the 1920's. She was the only one allowed to train with real weapons. Note the butterfly swords that had already degenerated to the off centre tip versions, pretty much restricted to slicing only, unlike the Qing singleton ones of mine above.

Will M · 28th June 2019, 09:12 PM

I've seen something quite similar before and it was a fireplace poker. It could well be part of a Victorian fireplace set. Surplus sword blades and hilts were repurposed for quite a few things from pokers to candle sticks as were bayonets.

Jim McDougall · 30th June 2019, 08:41 PM

While the look into Chinese martial arts and their weapons has led down some interesting cultural aspects of China, I wanted to add images of the weapon which I had in mind in considering this alternating quillon hilt guard.

This is a dadao, termed BaGwa Qi Dao, and of mid Qing style, believed to be from the period of the Buddhist Millenarian Rebellion (1813). Without elaborating on markings etc. it is the form that is key and suggests the influence for this interesting weapon.

While many items were of course fashioned into sundry implements, tools etc. such as fireplace pokers, candlesticks, and so on, the blade on this suggests more of an intended weapon with parrying capacity.

kronckew · 1st July 2019, 07:39 PM

Well, I've dissembled a bit. The sword was not yet in my hands before. It arrived to day from my actually remote dealer (

), so I can post a bit more detail.

Sword is cool, obviously a weapon, It's a proper sword blade. Blade is springy, but not too much, and obviously been blued tho not decorated with engraving or gold. Has a few age spots. The blade has a butter knife edge sharpness with a central ridge to the foible, which appears to have a sharper edge, which I will sharpen a bit more for about 6 in. Guard is made in one piece and fitted precisely to the blade. It has some pitting & rust to remove. but not much. The brass grip balances the weapon about an inch in front of the guard, I found myself fingering the guard. It's just the right length so it doesn't hit the ground with a low parry.

It doesn't look GI, whatever government it's owner served, It appears to be a good blade for a walk around town where things might go bump in an alley, or for the bedroom if you have unexpected guests in your manor house or castle. Or a no nonsense duel. This sword will KEEL!

28in. blade, 3/4 in. wide at the guard, 3+mm thick at the ricasso which is about 3in. long before transitioning smoothly to the edge. the iron guard is 5 in. across, the bent bits about 4.5 in., 1/2 in x 1/4 in. where they join the central piece fitted over the blade which is roughly 1/2 x 5/8 x 1 1/2in. Brass grip is 5 1/4 in. long guard ti peened end. weight is 834 grams or 1.84 lb., so not a light weight. As noted before, the balance is 1 in. ahead of the pointy bit of the guard. One side appears to have something stamped under the short pointy guard thing which is not quite a languet, but it's mostly covered and indecipherable.

Can take more pics now if interested...

27th June 2019, 07:50 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,227	had to rename that to add the .jpg extension. They look like a chinese sword breaker (Gan/Garn) posted elsewhere here. A overly lengthy Chinese demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SykZHMsCIfU your painting from above and that breaker: Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 27th June 2019 at 08:21 AM.

28th June 2019, 07:40 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,227	More red 'Show-boat' stuff: Note the Wing Chun kung-fu ''mok yan chong'' practice tree on the bow of the model. The lady is one of the few Chinese opera stars of her age (most were actually men in drag) from the 1920's. She was the only one allowed to train with real weapons. Note the butterfly swords that had already degenerated to the off centre tip versions, pretty much restricted to slicing only, unlike the Qing singleton ones of mine above. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 28th June 2019 at 08:24 PM.

30th June 2019, 08:41 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,295	Chinese martial arts hilt style alternating quillons While the look into Chinese martial arts and their weapons has led down some interesting cultural aspects of China, I wanted to add images of the weapon which I had in mind in considering this alternating quillon hilt guard. This is a dadao, termed BaGwa Qi Dao, and of mid Qing style, believed to be from the period of the Buddhist Millenarian Rebellion (1813). Without elaborating on markings etc. it is the form that is key and suggests the influence for this interesting weapon. While many items were of course fashioned into sundry implements, tools etc. such as fireplace pokers, candlesticks, and so on, the blade on this suggests more of an intended weapon with parrying capacity. Attached Images

1st July 2019, 07:39 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,227	Well, I've dissembled a bit. The sword was not yet in my hands before. It arrived to day from my actually remote dealer (), so I can post a bit more detail. Sword is cool, obviously a weapon, It's a proper sword blade. Blade is springy, but not too much, and obviously been blued tho not decorated with engraving or gold. Has a few age spots. The blade has a butter knife edge sharpness with a central ridge to the foible, which appears to have a sharper edge, which I will sharpen a bit more for about 6 in. Guard is made in one piece and fitted precisely to the blade. It has some pitting & rust to remove. but not much. The brass grip balances the weapon about an inch in front of the guard, I found myself fingering the guard. It's just the right length so it doesn't hit the ground with a low parry. It doesn't look GI, whatever government it's owner served, It appears to be a good blade for a walk around town where things might go bump in an alley, or for the bedroom if you have unexpected guests in your manor house or castle. Or a no nonsense duel. This sword will KEEL! 28in. blade, 3/4 in. wide at the guard, 3+mm thick at the ricasso which is about 3in. long before transitioning smoothly to the edge. the iron guard is 5 in. across, the bent bits about 4.5 in., 1/2 in x 1/4 in. where they join the central piece fitted over the blade which is roughly 1/2 x 5/8 x 1 1/2in. Brass grip is 5 1/4 in. long guard ti peened end. weight is 834 grams or 1.84 lb., so not a light weight. As noted before, the balance is 1 in. ahead of the pointy bit of the guard. One side appears to have something stamped under the short pointy guard thing which is not quite a languet, but it's mostly covered and indecipherable. Can take more pics now if interested...

28th June 2019, 09:12 PM	#5
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 395	I've seen something quite similar before and it was a fireplace poker. It could well be part of a Victorian fireplace set. Surplus sword blades and hilts were repurposed for quite a few things from pokers to candle sticks as were bayonets.