ANOTHER SECRET OF WOOTZ (Or is it????)

[Rick]

Hi Alex , Figiel mentions nothing (I believe) about making letters in wootz .
He does cover kirk narduban and the rose pattern though .

If these arabic words are so miniscule as to need strong magnification ; I would then wonder if this is not a matter of interpretation of abstract forms resembling something concrete .

Again , without pictures .........

[B.I]

hi alex,
this does exist, and as you say, it is very rare. i know of a blade with an inlaid cartouche and bedouh, both of which are replicated within the wootz pattern, some inches above the inlay. (actually, it is the other way round, the inlay replicates the wootz signature)
it is created in the same way a ladder is done, just finer and more intricate. the blade in queston is in london, and has just come back from a temporary loan to paris.
fiegel did not write the definative book on wootz, just a comprehensive account of his own collection and a compilation of already known terms and reference. he did not own one, and probably wasnt aware they existed.
he didnt incude zig-zag ladders either (i think?) and these exist as well.
talented guys, these persians!

[RSWORD]

While contemporary knowledge of wootz and it's manufacture has increased dramatically in the past 10 years there are still some unknow factors out there which makes certain patterns not reproduceable at this time. Rick Furrer who is one of the smiths that is currently producing wootz blades shared with us at the Timonium seminar that he is still unable to make the more complicated Persian patterns(naturally forming, not manipulated) and also has not been able to replicate some of the more brilliant coloration found on these fine early blades. Given the exhaustive amount of time involved with sucessfully forging wootz, it may take quite a few more years to "figure" out this part. Rick seems one determined to walk that path though and it will be interesting to see how this progresses and how then will the best of the contemporary wootz compare with the best of the old days.

[M.carter]

Originally Posted by RSWORD

While contemporary knowledge of wootz and it's manufacture has increased dramatically in the past 10 years there are still some unknow factors out there which makes certain patterns not reproduceable at this time. Rick Furrer who is one of the smiths that is currently producing wootz blades shared with us at the Timonium seminar that he is still unable to make the more complicated Persian patterns(naturally forming, not manipulated) and also has not been able to replicate some of the more brilliant coloration found on these fine early blades. Given the exhaustive amount of time involved with sucessfully forging wootz, it may take quite a few more years to "figure" out this part. Rick seems one determined to walk that path though and it will be interesting to see how this progresses and how then will the best of the contemporary wootz compare with the best of the old days.

I was wondering, is the wootz that Mr.Furrer producing, "traditional"?? I mean produced by traditional ways of producing wootz, and is the steel technically identical to the old wootz?

[RSWORD]

Originally Posted by M.carter

I was wondering, is the wootz that Mr.Furrer producing, "traditional"?? I mean produced by traditional ways of producing wootz, and is the steel technically identical to the old wootz?

Yes, it is traditional in the sense that it is a crucible steel. I believe the metallurgical tests performed on his blades meet the carbon levels that most people associate with historical wootz.(at least from the handful of antique blades that have been tested.) I believe Rick has a website where he goes more into detail of his manufacturing techniques. But the short answer, due to my inability to go into more technical detail, is that it is traditional wootz.

[M.carter]

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Yes, it is traditional in the sense that it is a crucible steel. I believe the metallurgical tests performed on his blades meet the carbon levels that most people associate with historical wootz.(at least from the handful of antique blades that have been tested.) I believe Rick has a website where he goes more into detail of his manufacturing techniques. But the short answer, due to my inability to go into more technical detail, is that it is traditional wootz.

Thats Great! Really, who ever thought that wootz would be reproduced. Hopefully, someday after Rick could reproduce all the kinds of historical wootz, we could say that wootz is a "refound art", not a "lost art"