Twisted mind

Ian · 17th June 2019, 01:37 AM

Hi Nihl:

Ariel may be able to help with your question about origins of the laz bichaq.

You mention atypical examples of the laz bichaq (a.k.a. Black Sea yataghan), and I think I have one (presently buried deep in my boxes that were moved not long ago from the U.S. to Australia). Attached is a group picture that shows this sword (second from right), flanked by two more laz bichaq of typical form. The sheathed one has three groups of three fullers, similar to other examples shown on this site.

I have also shown a close up of the unusual hilt. Apologies for the grainy picture, but it's the best I have at the moment.

Ian

P.S. This unusual sword was actually discussed previously on the Forum here and I see that I never got around to posting pictures of it (only the auction link). I will try to dig it out of the collection and post much clearer shots.

ariel · 17th June 2019, 03:52 AM

An allusion to the Egyptian Khopesh or to Babylonian Sappara has occasionally slithered into collector's /dealer's lingo and is still regularly appears in Russian books. IMHO, any connection is improbable: both of the above were in use literally thousands of years ago in particular locations and nothing similar appeared since till the ~mid-19 century in a place far away from both of those ancient civilizations, in a very small ethnic group in a tiny location ( yes, I know, Christian Greeks from the same area also used it).

Who on Earth had a brilliantly-delusional idea to combine features of Algerean Flissa and Ottoman Yataghan and to add to it a distinctive forked pommel, is a mystery. But the survival time of Laz Bichaqs was short: they vanished at the most after 50-70 years of their existence. Transition to firearms did not help, of course, but the sheer impracticality of that design was likely a decisive factor. After all, Caucasian kindjals of similarly peculiar appearance ( Gurian, for example) continued to be used in Georgia, Turkey (next to Laz Bichaqs) and even became a regulation weapon of the Black Sea Cossack Host. They were engineeringly sound, unlike Laz Bichaqs.
It's like the mule: a crossbreed of a horse and an ass, that is unable to reproduce. There are limits to the viability of evolutionary process and failed progeny is mercilessly eliminated.

17th June 2019, 01:37 AM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,399	Hi Nihl: Ariel may be able to help with your question about origins of the laz bichaq. You mention atypical examples of the laz bichaq (a.k.a. Black Sea yataghan), and I think I have one (presently buried deep in my boxes that were moved not long ago from the U.S. to Australia). Attached is a group picture that shows this sword (second from right), flanked by two more laz bichaq of typical form. The sheathed one has three groups of three fullers, similar to other examples shown on this site. I have also shown a close up of the unusual hilt. Apologies for the grainy picture, but it's the best I have at the moment. Ian P.S. This unusual sword was actually discussed previously on the Forum here and I see that I never got around to posting pictures of it (only the auction link). I will try to dig it out of the collection and post much clearer shots. Attached Images

17th June 2019, 03:52 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	An allusion to the Egyptian Khopesh or to Babylonian Sappara has occasionally slithered into collector's /dealer's lingo and is still regularly appears in Russian books. IMHO, any connection is improbable: both of the above were in use literally thousands of years ago in particular locations and nothing similar appeared since till the ~mid-19 century in a place far away from both of those ancient civilizations, in a very small ethnic group in a tiny location ( yes, I know, Christian Greeks from the same area also used it). Who on Earth had a brilliantly-delusional idea to combine features of Algerean Flissa and Ottoman Yataghan and to add to it a distinctive forked pommel, is a mystery. But the survival time of Laz Bichaqs was short: they vanished at the most after 50-70 years of their existence. Transition to firearms did not help, of course, but the sheer impracticality of that design was likely a decisive factor. After all, Caucasian kindjals of similarly peculiar appearance ( Gurian, for example) continued to be used in Georgia, Turkey (next to Laz Bichaqs) and even became a regulation weapon of the Black Sea Cossack Host. They were engineeringly sound, unlike Laz Bichaqs. It's like the mule: a crossbreed of a horse and an ass, that is unable to reproduce. There are limits to the viability of evolutionary process and failed progeny is mercilessly eliminated.