A katar is a katar till......

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

I think the thread has taken a turn where I will leave.
Jim could you please make the pictures a bit smaller, so the reader does not have to scroll a lot - thank you.
I am aware of, that some useres of the forum are not the researcher type, as they relay only on the informationms they get from the forum, but you should try to research - it may be hard at the beginning, but it pays.

Jens, my apologies for the inconvenience with the photos, which I removed and will resize accordingly.

Adding the photos here for previous post (edit window expired).
the 'madu' which is a dual bladed weapon ostensibly for parrying, note extra blade for stabbing.
the 'bristly' character from Delhi with blades everywhere
the weapon we are discussing which looks like a bazuband (vambrace) but has transverse grips inside (as in gauntlet sword).
The Persian kulah khud helmet with 'stabbing' point on top
shield with stabbing point and blades.

All illustrate the Indian penchant for innovation in combining features of various weapons for optimum combative application, or appearance of.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Jim, dont worry, as I do know that threads tend to change the subject after some posts. You should not have removed the pictures - I am sorry I mentioned it.
My comment on research was meant in generel, as although many interesting pieces of information can be found on the forum, it is hardly research.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Jim, dont worry, as I do know that threads tend to change the subject after some posts. You should not have removed the pictures - I am sorry I mentioned it.
My comment on research was meant in generel, as although many interesting pieces of information can be found on the forum, it is hardly research.

Thanks Jens, no problem. Actually I had noted the size was troublesome but had not yet gotten to resizing (it was aggravating me too as I could not get to the edit box). I have now gotten the hang of resizing so these pics should be OK.
Back to business:


Nihl,
In the photo of this unusual katar, which is clearly from southern India (primarily the use of brass or gold metal which often signals that) it has a slightly curved blade, very much resembling a tooth. We think of the jhamdhar term (= tooth of death etc) and perhaps the symbolism carried.
It also brings to mind the bagh nakh (=tigers claw) which has been mentioned in accord with this multi 'katar' bladed weapon which is mindful of a full set of claws.

When the famed Hindu ruler Shivaji (1627-1680) killed Afzal Khan in 1657, it is generally held that he used a bagh nagh in one hand, and a bichwa dagger in the other.
With the Indian penchant for combining weapons, we see the example of bichwa fashioned with bagh nakh blades in its handle.

We then consider thoughts of these combination weapons, the katar variants and perhaps such events possibly inspiring their creation.

[Jens Nordlunde]

The discussion has been quite interesting, but did any of you notice the difference of the hilt bases of the katars shown in the first picture and in pictures like no 11 and 16?
The 'V' type of base is shown in the Hamza, so it is at least 16th century, but what about the curved base - and how old is the 'V' base?

Was it invented by the Mughals?