dutch smallsword with japanese influence

Gustav · 10th April 2019, 06:07 PM

Just a remark - Tonquin cannot be Tokyo or vice versa for the swords in question, as Tokyo was called Edo until 1868, when the capital was moved.

Jim McDougall · 10th April 2019, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Just a remark - Tonquin cannot be Tokyo or vice versa for the swords in question, as Tokyo was called Edo until 1868, when the capital was moved.

Ahah!!
Thank you Gustav!! I had noticed the material referring to the Edo period,but did not notice this. So we are back to. ….why in this period in the 18th c. were these type hilts called Tonquinese? The only Tonquin I have ever found was North Viet Nam (Tonkin...well known from that War)…..with South Viet Nam Cochin China.
On the sword Jasper showed, the 'Japanese' hat noted looks to me very SE Asian, i.e. Thai, Burmese, Viet Namese?

cornelistromp · 12th April 2019, 04:39 PM

a mid 17thc hanger/smallsword with a chain between the guillon and the pommel cap and a paternoster carved on the blade which are both typical characteristics of Dutch 17thC smallswords.

note the carved ends of the guillons in the shape of the head of a Samurai and the demon mask carved on the loopguard

re: Asian Hat of post 5.
Luyken, Caspar and Engelbrecht
Boucquet. Portret Kangxi, keizer van China.
1698. Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam.
see attachement of emperor of china.(Dutch art)

best
jasper

Jim McDougall · 12th April 2019, 06:32 PM

Another breathtaking example Jasper, and as you note, the familiar Samurai hair style is seen......the illustration of the Chinese man also shows the hat similar as previously discussed.
More evidence of the stylistic exchanges between China and the Japan/Dutch trade alliance in Dejima (near Nagasaki). In Peter Bleed's article he notes the profound influence of Dutch (European) artistic style in the work in their famed tsuba (disc guards) on their swords. The Dutch in kind, adopted clearly Oriental motif in their hilts.

An aside, there were profoundly represented hilt styles produced in Sri Lanka for the Dutch, who also adopted their motif and kastane style in some hangers, and I believe a good number in ivory.

cornelistromp · 12th April 2019, 07:35 PM

Dutch Visions of Asia and Empire in the Seventeenth century

http://www1.umassd.edu/euro/2015papers/neumann.pdf

very interesting pdf

12th April 2019, 04:39 PM	#3
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	a mid 17thc hanger/smallsword with a chain between the guillon and the pommel cap and a paternoster carved on the blade which are both typical characteristics of Dutch 17thC smallswords. note the carved ends of the guillons in the shape of the head of a Samurai and the demon mask carved on the loopguard re: Asian Hat of post 5. Luyken, Caspar and Engelbrecht Boucquet. Portret Kangxi, keizer van China. 1698. Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam. see attachement of emperor of china.(Dutch art) best jasper Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 12th April 2019 at 05:51 PM.

10th April 2019, 06:07 PM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	Just a remark - Tonquin cannot be Tokyo or vice versa for the swords in question, as Tokyo was called Edo until 1868, when the capital was moved.

12th April 2019, 06:32 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,284	Another breathtaking example Jasper, and as you note, the familiar Samurai hair style is seen......the illustration of the Chinese man also shows the hat similar as previously discussed. More evidence of the stylistic exchanges between China and the Japan/Dutch trade alliance in Dejima (near Nagasaki). In Peter Bleed's article he notes the profound influence of Dutch (European) artistic style in the work in their famed tsuba (disc guards) on their swords. The Dutch in kind, adopted clearly Oriental motif in their hilts. An aside, there were profoundly represented hilt styles produced in Sri Lanka for the Dutch, who also adopted their motif and kastane style in some hangers, and I believe a good number in ivory.

12th April 2019, 07:35 PM	#5
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Dutch Visions of Asia and Empire in the Seventeenth century http://www1.umassd.edu/euro/2015papers/neumann.pdf very interesting pdf