Miniature cannon with proofmarks

fernando · 7th April 2019, 05:06 PM

Cute piece indeed Ken,
I tell you what;
Assuming this could be a real tiny cannon for whatever purpose we leave it in this forum for possible identification.
If it results to be a toy or a non functional miniature, implicating that those proof marks are a fantasy, then we move it to the Miscellania forum, for different appreciation.
Meanwhile, have you tried to blow through the barrel, checking if the air goes out by the touch hole ? Generally in toys or replicas it doesn't.

MitsuWa. · 7th April 2019, 05:31 PM

I notice the piece is lathe turned and seperate lugs added on. So it seems to be a later piece rather than a more original method of manufacturing through casting; as far as which era it may be from.

fernando · 7th April 2019, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MitsuWa.

I notice the piece is lathe turned and seperate lugs added on. So it seems to be a later piece rather than a more original method of manufacturing through casting; as far as which era it may be from.

Good points to consider, MitsuWa !

Kmaddock · 7th April 2019, 09:19 PM

Hi All
Thanks for your opinions.
I can blow through the barrel and out the touch hole, so it could be used
Looking at it under a strong magnifying glass there is none of the circular markings going all the way round, sone near the touch hole though. So I do not think it was turned on a lathe I think the main barrel is cast.

It does look like the lugs were soldered into the sides of the cannon rather than cast. As to weather this makes it a later piece I do not know.

Mark you say British proof marks , well done if you can form an opinion from my terrible photography, if they are British have you any opinion on date.

The cost was minimal and I have learned from what I have found out about signal guns so a nice buy either way.

Regards to all.

Ken

Rick · 7th April 2019, 10:16 PM

Sundial cannon ?
A day late and a dollar short again.. sigh.

fernando · 7th April 2019, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Sundial cannon ?
A day late and a dollar short again.. sigh.

Sic erunt novissimi primi

.

CutlassCollector · 7th April 2019, 11:00 PM

I have no idea of the age of that particular one but they do still make them and proof them for the miniature cannon shooting discipline in the UK.

https://www.mlagb.com/canon-section/

CC

P14 · 7th April 2019, 10:21 PM

Those are definitely London proof house marks. To date it look at the style- loosely based on an Armstrong rifled muzzle loader c.1850's maybe?
These proof marks are for shotguns, but you can sort of see similarities

M ELEY · 7th April 2019, 05:47 PM

Hi Ken,

As Fernando said, it could be a toy due to its tiny size. That being said,I think it could still be a miniature signal gun. Some were indeed diminutive and were used to signal the hour on ships, serve as alarm clocks of the day. Here's a wiki page with an example cannon like yours. If it were only a toy, I don't think it would have the English proofs like yours. Congratulations on the neat find!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundial_cannon

fernando · 7th April 2019, 08:09 PM

Rather plausible, Mark.
The dimensions of that device are Height: 18 cm (7 ″); Diameter: 31 cm (12.2 ″); Ken's cannon looks proportional.

7th April 2019, 10:16 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Sundial cannon ? A day late and a dollar short again.. sigh. Last edited by Rick; 7th April 2019 at 10:31 PM.

7th April 2019, 10:21 PM	#8
P14 Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: UK Posts: 7	Those are definitely London proof house marks. To date it look at the style- loosely based on an Armstrong rifled muzzle loader c.1850's maybe? These proof marks are for shotguns, but you can sort of see similarities Attached Images

7th April 2019, 05:47 PM	#9
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,206	Hi Ken, As Fernando said, it could be a toy due to its tiny size. That being said,I think it could still be a miniature signal gun. Some were indeed diminutive and were used to signal the hour on ships, serve as alarm clocks of the day. Here's a wiki page with an example cannon like yours. If it were only a toy, I don't think it would have the English proofs like yours. Congratulations on the neat find! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundial_cannon Last edited by M ELEY; 7th April 2019 at 06:39 PM.

7th April 2019, 05:06 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Cute piece indeed Ken, I tell you what; Assuming this could be a real tiny cannon for whatever purpose we leave it in this forum for possible identification. If it results to be a toy or a non functional miniature, implicating that those proof marks are a fantasy, then we move it to the Miscellania forum, for different appreciation. Meanwhile, have you tried to blow through the barrel, checking if the air goes out by the touch hole ? Generally in toys or replicas it doesn't.

7th April 2019, 05:31 PM	#2
MitsuWa. Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 22	I notice the piece is lathe turned and seperate lugs added on. So it seems to be a later piece rather than a more original method of manufacturing through casting; as far as which era it may be from.

7th April 2019, 09:19 PM	#4
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 545	Hi All Thanks for your opinions. I can blow through the barrel and out the touch hole, so it could be used Looking at it under a strong magnifying glass there is none of the circular markings going all the way round, sone near the touch hole though. So I do not think it was turned on a lathe I think the main barrel is cast. It does look like the lugs were soldered into the sides of the cannon rather than cast. As to weather this makes it a later piece I do not know. Mark you say British proof marks , well done if you can form an opinion from my terrible photography, if they are British have you any opinion on date. The cost was minimal and I have learned from what I have found out about signal guns so a nice buy either way. Regards to all. Ken

7th April 2019, 11:00 PM	#7
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 369	I have no idea of the age of that particular one but they do still make them and proof them for the miniature cannon shooting discipline in the UK. https://www.mlagb.com/canon-section/ CC

7th April 2019, 08:09 PM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Rather plausible, Mark. The dimensions of that device are Height: 18 cm (7 ″); Diameter: 31 cm (12.2 ″); Ken's cannon looks proportional.