Small Padsumbalin Panabas

[Ian]

[QUOTE=Sajen]... For me are nicks in an edge are a sign of combat use!? .../QUOTE]


Probably not confirmation of use in combat IMHO. More likely some brittleness in a hardened edge which has chipped when striking something hard--a stone, hard piece of wood or metal, etc. (or even another weapon).
Ian

[xasterix]

[QUOTE=Ian]

Originally Posted by Sajen

... For me are nicks in an edge are a sign of combat use!? .../QUOTE]


Probably not confirmation of use in combat IMHO. More likely some brittleness in a hardened edge which has chipped when striking something hard--a stone, hard piece of wood or metal, etc. (or even another weapon).
Ian

I second this. The blade can encounter accidents too during gardening

[Robert]

Detlef, I hope that you do not mind but I have added a couple of photos edited to show the engraving on the blade a bit better. I have seen several other styles of smaller panabas before, but this is the first one with this particular blade style. Personally I would tend to believe that this piece would have been made to be used more as a weapon than just something intended to trim the grass. JMHO. Congratulations for another great catch and addition to your collection.

Best,
Robert

[mross]

I know this may not be a popular opinion. I do not think any of the Panabas where primarily a fighting weapon. Status symbol, execution device, clean up weapon after a battle but not primarily a fighting weapon. Not to say it could not or would not be used under the right circumstance. I have several and have seen and held a few more, IMHO they are too cumbersome and slow to be used in battle. A kalis, barong or spear would put the user of a panabas at very severe disadvantage. I also do not believe in the fear argument that they where used to strike fear into their opponents. I do not see a Moro being very fearful of an opponent coming at him with a panabas. I could see him smiling as he knows he is about to make him meet his maker.

[CharlesS]

Very nice example Detlef, and looks to be of excellent quality. Congrats!

[Robert]

Originally Posted By mross
I know this may not be a popular opinion. I do not think any of the Panabas where primarily a fighting weapon. Status symbol, execution device, clean up weapon after a battle but not primarily a fighting weapon. Not to say it could not or would not be used under the right circumstance. I have several and have seen and held a few more, IMHO they are too cumbersome and slow to be used in battle. A kalis, barong or spear would put the user of a panabas at very severe disadvantage. I also do not believe in the fear argument that they where used to strike fear into their opponents. I do not see a Moro being very fearful of an opponent coming at him with a panabas. I could see him smiling as he knows he is about to make him meet his maker.

It was not my intent to infer that this style of panabas was ever meant to be used as a primary weapon in battle, but instead could have possibly been carried either as a secondary weapon or as you pointed out as a status symbol. I just do not believe that examples such as the one Detlef has shown here were made with the sole purpose of being used as nothing more than mere gardening tools.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Robert

It was not my intent to infer that this style of panabas was ever meant to be used as a primary weapon in battle, but instead could have possibly been carried either as a secondary weapon or as you pointed out as a status symbol. I just do not believe that examples such as the one Detlef has shown here were made with the sole purpose of being used as nothing more than mere gardening tools.

Hi Robert and Detlef, please understand my comment is in no way meant to belittle/slur the panabas in question (what would I give to have an antique like that), but rather as a context-setter / primer on how Moros fight, based on my research and experience on Moro Fighting Arts (MFA) and the invaluable info / advice of previous forum members.

In my opinion, the panabas is chiefly a Maguindanao weapon. While it may have been used in the battlefield, it is chiefly a sultan's bodyguard and execution weapon; it's the equivalent of shock and awe for the populace.

Now, why do I think it's not likely to have been used in battle?

1. There are better weapons. The oldest Moro weapon is the spear, and it's the mainstay in any conflict. Its exceptional range is a must in battlefield scenarios. The Moro warriors were not like the talibong-wielding Pulahanes of the Visayas who relied on guerilla tactics; theirs was the open battlefield kind of battle. If they relied solely on their barungs and kris, they would have been mowed down before they were able to use these in close-quarter combat. Enter the spear, which I think has not been getting enough attention in this forum. Before the kris or barung gets unsheated, it's the initial weapon, and is usually paired with a shield. If I were a Moro warrior and I had to choose a two-handed weapon, I would not choose the panabas, as it is:
a. Limited in range
b. Cumbersome
c. Too slow
d. Bigger samples are too heavy

2. It is not included in the list of traditional Maguindanao weapons. Based on a short 1970s ethnographic reference aptly entitled 'Maguindanaon', the traditional carry consists of spear, kris, and a large knife. You can see the wisdom in this array of weapons because they allow one to dominate at three different ranges of engagement; if you used the panabas as a secondary or primary, you would have to give up either the spear or the kris, which are, in my opinion, much better weapons.

3. The engraved symbols on the blade are decorative, not talismanic. Those who own multiple talismanic Moro blades in their collection will understand that there is a pattern or common motifs to engraved blades which are meant for killing. I've seen panabas before with a talismanic motif, and it's quite potent.

Hope this info helps!

[mross]

Originally Posted by Robert

It was not my intent to infer that this style of panabas was ever meant to be used as a primary weapon in battle, but instead could have possibly been carried either as a secondary weapon or as you pointed out as a status symbol. I just do not believe that examples such as the one Detlef has shown here were made with the sole purpose of being used as nothing more than mere gardening tools.

No argument at all. I never mentioned gardening tool I was trying to point out and guess I did not do so well, that I think status symbol is their primary purpose. I have read many statements that the panabas is a formidable weapon. This I disagree with. I think the panabas mentioned here is meant as a status symbol. I don't think anyone would take the time to engrave a weed cutter. Now something used for Betel nuts is a different story entirely. I can easily see that being blinged out to the max.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Robert

It was not my intent to infer that this style of panabas was ever meant to be used as a primary weapon in battle, but instead could have possibly been carried either as a secondary weapon or as you pointed out as a status symbol. I just do not believe that examples such as the one Detlef has shown here were made with the sole purpose of being used as nothing more than mere gardening tools.

Hello Robert,

Agree with you that it would make very good second hand weapon. On the other side I could imagine it as farmer tool as well, the nicks don't speak a clear language and blade surface seems to be never been polished.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Very nice example Detlef, and looks to be of excellent quality. Congrats!

Thank you Charles and indeed, like seen by the pictures it's a nice new toy!

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mross

I know this may not be a popular opinion. I do not think any of the Panabas where primarily a fighting weapon. Status symbol, execution device, clean up weapon after a battle but not primarily a fighting weapon. Not to say it could not or would not be used under the right circumstance. I have several and have seen and held a few more, IMHO they are too cumbersome and slow to be used in battle. A kalis, barong or spear would put the user of a panabas at very severe disadvantage. I also do not believe in the fear argument that they where used to strike fear into their opponents. I do not see a Moro being very fearful of an opponent coming at him with a panabas. I could see him smiling as he knows he is about to make him meet his maker.

Hello Mross,

I agree with you complete. I don't know next to nothing about MFA but I could imagine such a small panabas as second hand weapon.
But it's for sure a very good farmer tool too.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Probably not confirmation of use in combat IMHO. More likely some brittleness in a hardened edge which has chipped when striking something hard--a stone, hard piece of wood or metal, etc. (or even another weapon). [/QUOTE]

Hi Ian,

Yes, for sure there are different reasons for harmed edges, while Stones or metal by blow contact will cause break outs or bending a nick from edge to edge contact has a typical appearance when you look close. A damage from hard wood I hardly doubt, I've chopped some wood in my life, byself rusted nails in chopped wood get cut with no damage to the edge from the axe.
The damage/nicks by the blade in discussion not faultlessly determinable on first view.

Regards,
Detlef