The Tourist Item/Souvenier in arms antiquities

Jim McDougall · 13th March 2019, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I guess for me it is a problem of quality, use, and age.

Tourist quality I rate as low. However, if a piece is modern with high quality and still in use by a culture, i.e. the Omani khanjar for example, then I would not consider that tourist but a recent legitimate piece.

I think we are on pretty much the same page Jose. The tourist stuff (produced in some volume for souks with cheap material) is of course pretty bad....but things that reflect some quality, and with actual weapon potential....may not reach earlier standards but still are ethnographically viable examples.

kahnjar1 · 13th March 2019, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I think we are on pretty much the same page Jose. The tourist stuff (produced in some volume for souks with cheap material) is of course pretty bad....but things that reflect some quality, and with actual weapon potential....may not reach earlier standards but still are ethnographically viable examples.

....but then who is the judge to say that an item is bad or good. One might argue that the modern made quality Khanjars shown on Ibrahiim's posts, though no doubt "Ethnographic" are also made for tourists, otherwise why would they be produced, unless for presentation. I may be quite wrong, but I would expect that the well-to-do of Oman and the region, would be more likely to wear a quality old piece handed down thru the generations.
Pics of everyday life in Yemen (particularly) show Khanjar/Jambiya worn by the locals, of a quality we collectors might term low.
I have in my collection a few middle eastern swords which one could only class as "Tribal manufacture" but though of low quality, they certainly are usable as a weapon and I for one would not like to get in the way of one being wielded in my direction.
Stu

Jim McDougall · 13th March 2019, 05:19 AM

Well said Stu, it is up to the person to decide whether the quality and character of the weapon is satisfactory. As I have noted I have never been in these kinds of places such as Oman, and I only know what I have learned from Ibrahiim regarding particulars on khanjars. I think you are tight though, the highly valued heirloom examples likely are worn by higher echelon men, while lesser grade are perhaps in more common environment.

Still I think these are of considerable quality in relation to what might be deemed 'tourist', even if with less ostentatious decoration and elements.

Even of lower quality are examples described as tribal or in some cultures 'village type' pieces which are sturdy, but not necesarily 'pretty' and as you note, ones which would be regarded seriously in adverse situations.

Battara · 13th March 2019, 05:37 AM

Yeah I would place tourist, or at least low quality, as that of not being well made to be not very functional, although there are pieces that are now only jewelry made of expensive materials, but would not qualify as functional.

kahnjar1 · 13th March 2019, 06:25 AM

What I should also have mentioned in my previous post, is that while in Dubai recently, I saw several quality Khanjars of the sort shown by Ibrahiim, for sale at very high prices, in the tourist shop at the Burg Kalifa. These could only have been aimed at the tourist market as the locals would not shop there.
Stu

corrado26 · 13th March 2019, 08:20 AM

When I showed fotos of this koummya some time ago it was instantly and doubtlessly judged as a tourist item. However it is made in a very good quality with an unusual size - both attributes oppose to the opinion of beeing a tourist item. So what is it really?
corrado26

William Fox · 13th March 2019, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

What I should also have mentioned in my previous post, is that while in Dubai recently, I saw several quality Khanjars of the sort shown by Ibrahiim, for sale at very high prices, in the tourist shop at the Burg Kalifa. These could only have been aimed at the tourist market as the locals would not shop there.
Stu

Not necessarily. There are plenty of locals who browse at the Burj Khalifa, and they are sometimes the worst suckers for paying too much for things: too much money and took little knowledge.

mross · 13th March 2019, 03:56 PM

The "for those who travel" category is a deep dark swamp. The easiest is if the item in question was completely made for tourists. Where it gets dicey; what about a cheap blade shaped piece of metal put in an old original handle? Conversely how about an original blade placed in a cheap handle. Both of these could be done by a desperate owner to make a few bucks, or by a con man trying to make a few bucks.

13th March 2019, 08:20 AM	#6
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,237	When I showed fotos of this koummya some time ago it was instantly and doubtlessly judged as a tourist item. However it is made in a very good quality with an unusual size - both attributes oppose to the opinion of beeing a tourist item. So what is it really? corrado26 Attached Images

13th March 2019, 05:19 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,454	Well said Stu, it is up to the person to decide whether the quality and character of the weapon is satisfactory. As I have noted I have never been in these kinds of places such as Oman, and I only know what I have learned from Ibrahiim regarding particulars on khanjars. I think you are tight though, the highly valued heirloom examples likely are worn by higher echelon men, while lesser grade are perhaps in more common environment. Still I think these are of considerable quality in relation to what might be deemed 'tourist', even if with less ostentatious decoration and elements. Even of lower quality are examples described as tribal or in some cultures 'village type' pieces which are sturdy, but not necesarily 'pretty' and as you note, ones which would be regarded seriously in adverse situations.

13th March 2019, 05:37 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	Yeah I would place tourist, or at least low quality, as that of not being well made to be not very functional, although there are pieces that are now only jewelry made of expensive materials, but would not qualify as functional.

13th March 2019, 06:25 AM	#5
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,797	What I should also have mentioned in my previous post, is that while in Dubai recently, I saw several quality Khanjars of the sort shown by Ibrahiim, for sale at very high prices, in the tourist shop at the Burg Kalifa. These could only have been aimed at the tourist market as the locals would not shop there. Stu

13th March 2019, 03:56 PM	#8
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	The "for those who travel" category is a deep dark swamp. The easiest is if the item in question was completely made for tourists. Where it gets dicey; what about a cheap blade shaped piece of metal put in an old original handle? Conversely how about an original blade placed in a cheap handle. Both of these could be done by a desperate owner to make a few bucks, or by a con man trying to make a few bucks.