Significance of Beaded Edges/Borders on South Indian Weapons?

Jens Nordlunde · 5th March 2019, 02:31 PM

There are other books showing this beaded edges. Like Mortal Beauty, 2015. Page 208. Here it says Central India17th to 18th century.
Robert Elgood: Arms & Armour at the Jaipur Court, 2015. Page 87. Katar late 19th century. Page 128. Tulwar probably Kotah or Bundi 18th or early 19th century. Here Elgood writes: "Katars with a grip with a single knop, the design presumably acquired form the Deccan, were popular in Kotah/Bundi in the mid eighteenth century. Sword hilts with beaded edging can be seen in Kotah/Bundi paintings between 1760-1866 But do not appear in other Rajput miniatures."

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 5th March 2019, 04:46 PM

Indian jewellery has examples of this beaded technique in the South Indian Jhumkas ...ear rings styles..

Jim McDougall · 5th March 2019, 05:59 PM

These are remarkably important views guys, and all brilliantly presented, bringing to mind so many questions as we look further into this topic.

Here I would point out that Robert Elgood's book, "Hindu Arms & Ritual" is a fantastic reference which in my view (and use) just keeps giving. Its content addresses so many angles and deep corners of the field of Indian arms study that each topic that comes up has detail in areas I have not yet scoured. It is a powerful encyclopedic reference that is not meant to be read through in the manner of a novel or textbook.
As the title decribes, it is about Hindu arms AND ritual. While one chapter is titled to ritual, that aspect permeates throughout the book.

The Bible is a reverently held book of Faith, just as many such religious volumes, and not intended as an empirically studied reference.

I think it is generally agreed that not every instance of decoration has deep meaning or symbolism. It is also well understood that in any form of artistic material there will be license, over embellishment, and reflection of other influences in degree.

I agree that in the study of cultures, and in our case their arms, it is not just a matter of 'what is it'......and I heartily and emphatically agree......the WHY IS IT SO is exactly the way we should investigate these kinds of topics.
This was the true magic of Elgood's book, it reached into trying to explain the 'why' in so many aspects of the intricate symbolism in Hindu arms. This same perspective often reached far beyond the Hindu boundaries, as in so many cases the syncretic transcendance of this symbolism and that of other Faiths became known in material culture of each other.

In India, the creation of innovative arms as well as the decoration and over embellishment were commonly the case with weapons as armourers vied for the favor of their patrons. As with investigation of all arms' decoration, each must be looked at for its own merits and evaluated in accord with others with similarities in the same manner. Very true, sometimes it may well be a case of 'bling bling'

but looking for sources of the influences is the objective.

Mercenary · 5th March 2019, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Indian jewellery has examples of this beaded technique in the South Indian Jhumkas ...ear rings styles..

Thank you very much.

mross · 5th March 2019, 09:33 PM

Well just to make things more interesting, here is a photo of Buster's remake of the King Tut dagger. Note the bead work on the handle.

ArmsAndAntiques · 6th March 2019, 12:33 AM

It is important to distinguish between granular gold work, an ancient goldsmithing technique that in arms and armor is most prominently found on high quality Saudi saifs of the 19th and 20th century, and the beaded edges found on Indian arms.

The granular decorative element found in gold is un-related, in execution and placement on the arm itself, to the chiseling of iron of beaded borders, except in so far as both are decorative elements.

ariel · 6th March 2019, 02:13 AM

Decided to waste 5 minutes of my life to plowing the net. I Googled "rapier filigree"

Jim McDougall · 6th March 2019, 03:13 AM

Ariels search online has given way to perhaps a key word which might give us some perspective to Nihls original question. …...FILAGREE!

Apparently this word, which well describes the 'beaded' edges he is inquiring about in South Indian weapon decoration. It seems that filigree (from Lat. filum=thread; granum=grain...beads to Italian , filgrana). ...was prevalent in Italian, French and Portuguese metalwork from c.1660-late 19th c.

Perhaps this attractive fashion was adopted from these European sources through trade, as well known in India in these times. It is well known of course that European influences in arms was well established in India.

Clearly the use of beadwork has been present widely and through history, but here we are looking into its use in Southern India. Nihl prudently looked toward architectural inspirations as is clearly often the case with Indian hilts, but this particular feature does not seem apparent thus far.

While the inspiration for auspicious themes may often recall beads in various religious and traditional occasions in many parts of India, including of course Southern......perhaps the well known adoption of European influences might be considered. Thus Ariels 'wasted' time finding filigree laden rapiers and other swords maybe not so wasted after all.

Nihl · 6th March 2019, 02:38 AM

Wow I didn't expect the discussion to pick up so quickly! Thanks to all for replying/contributing!

Just my 2 cents on the discussion so far, I largely agree with Jim's point about it being in effect a religious-auspicious kind of decoration. From what I recall in both Elgood & the Al Sabah Collection, the topic of one thing or another being an auspicious symbol comes up too many times to count, so it certainly wouldn't surprise me if that is ultimately the case for beaded edges as well. Perhaps someone with more knowledge (and time) than I have could cross-reference the amount of "beads" on these weapons, either in segments or as a whole, and see if they correspond with any important numbers. Without any proof though, I think it would be inappropriate to just call it a day based on any single speculation.

From what I can remember in Elgood (Hindu A&R), there was still mostly a focus on the rituals themselves, the mythology surrounding those rituals, and then some tidbits here and there on how weapons are related to the aforementioned mythology and rituals. This isn't at all meant to downplay how important and useful the text is, but it is meant to say that I can't remember much iconography being explained other than the rather obvious "plants & animals can all be linked to a deity or tale of some sort". That said, I do remember (I think from a later Elgood publication) it being mentioned that beads and bells and so on were tied to the legs of animals in order to drive off evil spirits, something related to Mercenary's first post, so that could be another solid clue. Still though I find it hard to believe that immobile beads or "solid" bells would do as much good as their more lively attached-to-limbs counterparts.

5th March 2019, 04:46 PM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Indian jewellery has examples of this beaded technique in the South Indian Jhumkas ...ear rings styles.. Attached Images

5th March 2019, 09:33 PM	#5
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Well just to make things more interesting, here is a photo of Buster's remake of the King Tut dagger. Note the bead work on the handle. Attached Images

6th March 2019, 02:13 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Decided to waste 5 minutes of my life to plowing the net. I Googled "rapier filigree" Attached Images

5th March 2019, 02:31 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	There are other books showing this beaded edges. Like Mortal Beauty, 2015. Page 208. Here it says Central India17th to 18th century. Robert Elgood: Arms & Armour at the Jaipur Court, 2015. Page 87. Katar late 19th century. Page 128. Tulwar probably Kotah or Bundi 18th or early 19th century. Here Elgood writes: "Katars with a grip with a single knop, the design presumably acquired form the Deccan, were popular in Kotah/Bundi in the mid eighteenth century. Sword hilts with beaded edging can be seen in Kotah/Bundi paintings between 1760-1866 But do not appear in other Rajput miniatures."

5th March 2019, 05:59 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	These are remarkably important views guys, and all brilliantly presented, bringing to mind so many questions as we look further into this topic. Here I would point out that Robert Elgood's book, "Hindu Arms & Ritual" is a fantastic reference which in my view (and use) just keeps giving. Its content addresses so many angles and deep corners of the field of Indian arms study that each topic that comes up has detail in areas I have not yet scoured. It is a powerful encyclopedic reference that is not meant to be read through in the manner of a novel or textbook. As the title decribes, it is about Hindu arms AND ritual. While one chapter is titled to ritual, that aspect permeates throughout the book. The Bible is a reverently held book of Faith, just as many such religious volumes, and not intended as an empirically studied reference. I think it is generally agreed that not every instance of decoration has deep meaning or symbolism. It is also well understood that in any form of artistic material there will be license, over embellishment, and reflection of other influences in degree. I agree that in the study of cultures, and in our case their arms, it is not just a matter of 'what is it'......and I heartily and emphatically agree......the WHY IS IT SO is exactly the way we should investigate these kinds of topics. This was the true magic of Elgood's book, it reached into trying to explain the 'why' in so many aspects of the intricate symbolism in Hindu arms. This same perspective often reached far beyond the Hindu boundaries, as in so many cases the syncretic transcendance of this symbolism and that of other Faiths became known in material culture of each other. In India, the creation of innovative arms as well as the decoration and over embellishment were commonly the case with weapons as armourers vied for the favor of their patrons. As with investigation of all arms' decoration, each must be looked at for its own merits and evaluated in accord with others with similarities in the same manner. Very true, sometimes it may well be a case of 'bling bling' but looking for sources of the influences is the objective.

6th March 2019, 12:33 AM	#6
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	It is important to distinguish between granular gold work, an ancient goldsmithing technique that in arms and armor is most prominently found on high quality Saudi saifs of the 19th and 20th century, and the beaded edges found on Indian arms. The granular decorative element found in gold is un-related, in execution and placement on the arm itself, to the chiseling of iron of beaded borders, except in so far as both are decorative elements.

6th March 2019, 03:13 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Ariels search online has given way to perhaps a key word which might give us some perspective to Nihls original question. …...FILAGREE! Apparently this word, which well describes the 'beaded' edges he is inquiring about in South Indian weapon decoration. It seems that filigree (from Lat. filum=thread; granum=grain...beads to Italian , filgrana). ...was prevalent in Italian, French and Portuguese metalwork from c.1660-late 19th c. Perhaps this attractive fashion was adopted from these European sources through trade, as well known in India in these times. It is well known of course that European influences in arms was well established in India. Clearly the use of beadwork has been present widely and through history, but here we are looking into its use in Southern India. Nihl prudently looked toward architectural inspirations as is clearly often the case with Indian hilts, but this particular feature does not seem apparent thus far. While the inspiration for auspicious themes may often recall beads in various religious and traditional occasions in many parts of India, including of course Southern......perhaps the well known adoption of European influences might be considered. Thus Ariels 'wasted' time finding filigree laden rapiers and other swords maybe not so wasted after all.

6th March 2019, 02:38 AM	#9
Nihl Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 90	Wow I didn't expect the discussion to pick up so quickly! Thanks to all for replying/contributing! Just my 2 cents on the discussion so far, I largely agree with Jim's point about it being in effect a religious-auspicious kind of decoration. From what I recall in both Elgood & the Al Sabah Collection, the topic of one thing or another being an auspicious symbol comes up too many times to count, so it certainly wouldn't surprise me if that is ultimately the case for beaded edges as well. Perhaps someone with more knowledge (and time) than I have could cross-reference the amount of "beads" on these weapons, either in segments or as a whole, and see if they correspond with any important numbers. Without any proof though, I think it would be inappropriate to just call it a day based on any single speculation. From what I can remember in Elgood (Hindu A&R), there was still mostly a focus on the rituals themselves, the mythology surrounding those rituals, and then some tidbits here and there on how weapons are related to the aforementioned mythology and rituals. This isn't at all meant to downplay how important and useful the text is, but it is meant to say that I can't remember much iconography being explained other than the rather obvious "plants & animals can all be linked to a deity or tale of some sort". That said, I do remember (I think from a later Elgood publication) it being mentioned that beads and bells and so on were tied to the legs of animals in order to drive off evil spirits, something related to Mercenary's first post, so that could be another solid clue. Still though I find it hard to believe that immobile beads or "solid" bells would do as much good as their more lively attached-to-limbs counterparts.