Flint pistol - Nationality?

[JamesKelly]

I generally like flint lock pistols, but don't know much about those from Europe. Picked this up in Michigan on Groundhog Day. Was told it was "German, circa 1750"
I saw that Fernando in a Jan 1 post showed a more elaborate pistol which he identified as Hungarian.
Any thoughts on this one? No markings visible, I am uneasy about removing the barrel to look for proofs.
Dimensions 425mm overall, 265mm barrel about 1/3 length fluted, balance round. About 12mm caliber, with file work at muzzle to imitate 7-groove rifling. Brass mounted, the thumb piece is reddish brass, meaning a bit lower zinc content. Ram rod replaced, stock has some repairs.

The forend cap is, I think, some distinctive style. Side plate is cut from sheet, not cast. It is hammered sheet, rather than rolled, about 0.86 – 0.91 mm thick.

What type of wood is approprate for a more correct ramrod?
In the USA we would of course use hickory, but I do not believe that hickory has been common in Europe since the last ice age. Might cow horn be authentic for the tip?
Is this muzzle “decoration/fake rifling” common to some particular area?

[Fernando K]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24611

Hello

Compare.......

afectiomaly

[JamesKelly]

Couldn't figure ourt how to add more than 4 photos

OK, at last moment guessed which buttons to press

[fernando]

Originally Posted by JamesKelly

Couldn't figure ourt how to add more than 4 photos

OK, at last moment guessed which buttons to press

Do i understand your question James ?
You can either fill in the attachments grid with six pictures, or upload one by one up to twelve.
... or you can submit a new reply and upload another lot.

PS
I see i was too late .

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by JamesKelly

Is this muzzle “decoration/fake rifling” common to some particular area?

Why do you think this is a fake rifling?
As the back of the barrel is fluted at its surface I think this pistol has been made in Italy.
corrado26

[fernando]

Originally Posted by corrado26

... Why do you think this is a fake rifling? ...

The darkness of the picture doesn't let us check the barrel interior but, James is in a better condition to see that there is no rifling continuity inside.
Just like in the pistol that Fernando K has linked, that 'crenelation' in the muzzle is only a fantasy.
Besides, if actual rifling would have its grooves carved so deep, the barrel wall thickness would become critical.
Am i correct ?



.

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by fernando

Besides, if actual rifling would have its grooves carved so deep, the barrel wall thickness would become critical.
Am i correct ?



.

There are lots of military guns - not rifles - with a rather thin wall thickness. These have mostly been fusilier-guns which could be loaded either quickly with a simple roll bullet or if there was a liitle more time with a plaster(?) bullet which has been more precise. As the wall thickness of the barrels normaly increases from the muzzle to the end there never have been problems because of the powder pressure especially since this pressure decreases on its way to the muzzle.
Rifling onlyt at the muzzle is mostly to be found at pistols with unscrewable barrels to put in a fitting key in order to turn off the barrel. At a pistol with a fixed barrel such grooves make no sense at all.
corrado26

[fernando]

Originally Posted by corrado26

...There are lots of military guns - not rifles - with a rather thin wall thickness...

Maybe not that thin, i would say .

Originally Posted by corrado26

... Rifling only at the muzzle is mostly to be found at pistols with "unscrewable" barrels to put in a fitting key in order to turn off the barrel.

You mean "screwable", Udo; yes, but not with so many dents, that i know of ... and with a different configuration .

Definitely James can tell us why he called it fake.


.

[corrado26]

Ok, my mistake, screwable is the expression.

Here is a pistol of my collection made by Andreas Erttel gunmaker to the court of Saxony with a rifled barrel. The twisted grooves go down the barrel until the powder chamber and as you can see the thickness of the barrel's wall is not that much though there is a muzzle ring that increases the thickness remarkably.
corrado26

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by corrado26

There are lots of military guns - not rifles - with a rather thin wall thickness. These have mostly been fusilier-guns which could be loaded either quickly with a simple roll bullet or if there was a liitle more time with a plaster(?) bullet which has been more precise. As the wall thickness of the barrels normaly increases from the muzzle to the end there never have been problems because of the powder pressure especially since this pressure decreases on its way to the muzzle.
Rifling onlyt at the muzzle is mostly to be found at pistols with unscrewable barrels to put in a fitting key in order to turn off the barrel. At a pistol with a fixed barrel such grooves make no sense at all.
corrado26

Thank you so much for this fascinating insight Corrado!!!!!

As someone wo has always studied edged weapons, it is amazing to learn more on the dynamics of these firearms.Your explanations are well worded so that a lay person in this field such as myself can easily follow.