“Pulen” Iron

Jean · 6th February 2019, 08:44 AM

Alan and GC,
Thank you for the very interesting discussion! In order to illustrate the subject for the non-specialists, are you able to show us a specimen of a blade with wesi pulen, although I realize that it may be difficult?
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 6th February 2019, 09:57 AM

Jean, I could probably come up with a blade that some people might consider to be wesi pulen --- but then others might not.

The parameters of keris belief are not universal; they are not consistent. Even if you go back to the same person at a different time you might not get the same answer you got last time.

This is Jawa we're dealing with Jean, it really does not work in any way similar to Paris France, or Sydney Australia.To survive in Jawa you need to be able to think in a different way.

I do not ever use the old Javanese terms to refer to the various supposedly different types of iron. I appraise the material used to make a keris blade in purely trade terms, not keris collector terms, not keris study group terms.

I ignore colour of wesi. If any iron is polished it will be shining white.

If any iron is stained the colour will vary dependent upon the expertise of the person doing the stain, and upon the medium used to stain.

One of the parameters used to appraise a keris is "guwaya". This refers purely to colour, whether it is a prestigious gleaming blue-black, or a muddy grey. Take that blade away, clean it, polish it, re-stain it, you can sometimes achieve a totally different guwaya.

I do not subscribe to the varying parameters used by some Javanese keris collectors in the appraisal of iron.

Jean · 6th February 2019, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I ignore colour of wesi. If any iron is polished it will be shining white.

If any iron is stained the colour will vary dependent upon the expertise of the person doing the stain, and upon the medium used to stain.

Thank you Alan and I fully agree.
Regards

Pusaka · 6th February 2019, 03:06 PM

Whilst there is physical colour and texture variation depending on the purity of iron, its working and its finishing process that is not what is meant by the sixteen types of wesi and their associated vowel sounds/colours.

A knowledge of actually what these sixteen types of wesi truly represent, how to use them is the highest secret of the Keris and not something you can expect to be given a satisfactory answer to unless you have been initiated into that.

David · 6th February 2019, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Whilst there is physical colour and texture variation depending on the purity of iron, its working and its finishing process that is not what is meant by the sixteen types of wesi and their associated vowel sounds/colours.

A knowledge of actually what these sixteen types of wesi truly represent, how to use them is the highest secret of the Keris and not something you can expect to be given a satisfactory answer to unless you have been initiated into that.

Belief can be a powerful thing. But what is "actual" and "true" is quite often a subjective reality.

gckaeng · 6th February 2019, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Alan and GC,
Thank you for the very interesting discussion! In order to illustrate the subject for the non-specialists, are you able to show us a specimen of a blade with wesi pulen, although I realize that it may be difficult?
Regards

Jean, David,
Once I worked out how to post pictures, will be happy to show you what the local belief system means by Pulen. To make it more confusing, I warn you that I am an amateur, so I may wrongly represent the belief. haha.
And as always, in any keris identification, it is best identified by holding it and feeling it, pictures may not do justice.

May be it is not as difficult as you worried. On trying to be objective, to take the name out all together, it might have actually meant the following character: very fine grain, well packed, smooth iron, subject to some degree of erosion.

I believe it is likely something you have seen many times, likely to posses in your collection too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

the word could be used as a reference to describe a quality of pamor.

Since pulen is iron character not pamor's, it is commonly well identified on minimum pamor blade.

David · 6th February 2019, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gckaeng

Since pulen is iron character not pamor's, it is commonly well identified on minimum pamor blade.

You are of course correct gckaeng. I had not meant to use the word pamor in that instance. I should have said "quality of iron".

kai · 8th February 2019, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gckaeng

Once I worked out how to post pictures, will be happy to show you what the local belief system means by Pulen.

Welcome to the forum!

Have a look here and let us know if you face any difficulties posting pics:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631
(Your pics will show up later after admin action.)

Regards,
Kai

David · 8th February 2019, 08:50 PM

Thanks Kai! I had noted that comment earlier ad as going to post this link, but then got distracted by the conversation. Careful, we might make you a moderator yet.

A. G. Maisey · 9th February 2019, 06:43 AM

This thread was opened with an enquiry about one type of iron (besi, wesi) wesi pulen. At the time it was opened, I was away from home, and was writing from memory, as I had no access to reference material, thus, my comments were rather superficial.

But I'm home now.

I actually have quite a lot of material that deals with the various types of iron that have been traditionally recognised by Javanese keris literate people. I have copies of everything on keris that can be found in the library of the Mangkunegaraan, I have copies of all the printed manuscripts that have been made available to Karaton Surakarta empus since the time of PBIX, I have copies of a good number of booklets that were published in Jawa in late colonial times, and I have the personal notebooks of some Solo based collectors, a couple of whom began their collecting before WWII. Of course, I have my own note books compiled over a 50 year period.

I've got far too much material to make everything that I have on iron, available here, however, I have selected one booklet that is named simply "WESI AJI". The attribution is ultimately to Empu Ramadi, it was printed in Solo in 1928.

Here is a listing of iron types:-
1) wesi karang kijang
2) wesi pulosani & karindhu aji
3) wesi mangangkang
4) wesi walulin
5) wesi katub
6) wesi kamboja
7) wesi ambal
8) wesi windu aji
9) wesi tumpang
10) wesi werani
11) wesi welangi
12) wesi terate
13) wesi malela ruyun
14) wesi malela kendaga
15) wesi kenur
16) wesi tumbuk
17) wesi balitung
16) wesi malik
17) mangangkang wadon
18) wesi windu hadi

Following this listing of primary iron types, there is a further listing of what happens when two or more of these primary types are mixed together, which in all cases creates a new iron type that must be avoided because these new iron types are no good, and additionally have a bad character that will be transferred to anything made from that iron. There are at least 11 examples of this "bad" iron.

After this second listing of "bad" irons, there is an explanation of the character and tuah of various irons.

Then we have a listing of a further 11 irons that result from the mixing of already listed primary irons, plus a couple of additional irons. This second list of mixed irons identifies irons that are universally "good" and of a harmonious character.

At the conclusion of this booklet there is a listing of irons that has been taken from the Kitab Jitapsoro (Sanghyang Nurroso):-
1) wesi wuriyan
2) wesi karangkijang (already listed from Empu Ramadi, but with a variation in description)
3) wesi jarimanten
4) wesi curandhamas
5) wesi danar/selipan/sesamad
6) wesi boji/rebeng
7) wesi kucur/menur perak
8) wesi grasak/tapel
9) garingsing/melik/pelikan

We then have an explanation of "bad" irons that are permissible for use for an explicit purpose, at this point the text becomes very confused and repetitive, with additional irons thrown into the mix.

The descriptions of the irons cover various ways in which they can be identified, including colour, feel, sound, it tells how and where they originate, their good and bad characteristics & etc & etc & etc.

This is just one little booklet written based upon keris belief in Solo nearly 100 years ago.

The problem with any identification of iron that is based upon the supposed attributes of an iron, is that those attributes can and do change depending upon the way in which the iron has been treated and the physical size of the piece.

Then there is the variation in beliefs held by one group of people as compared with other groups of people.

You may have noticed that wesi pulen does not get a mention in this booklet, which draws upon two older sources.However, if I read through the characteristics and identifiers of some of the listed iron types, there are several that could agree with the characteristics and identifiers used for wesi pulen.

Moving away from old sources, we can fast forward to a little booklet that was written by Suwarsono Lumintu, who is in Jogjakarta a highly regarded keris authority, he published a little booklet :- "Besi, Baja dan Pamor Keris" in 1985. He lists 17 types of iron that are considered to be "good", 6 types that are considered to be "bad", then he lists irons that when mixed with other irons are "good" --- 21 types, and "bad", 11 types.

He mentions the Kitab Jitapsoro, and lists 10 types of iron from that.

The great poet Ronggowarsito also gets a mention, and a further 44 iron types get a mention, but not all by a name, many in this Ronggowarsito list are by description only.

It seems to me that perhaps Lumintu used either the 1928 booklet, or some other similar booklet that drew upon the same original sources.

But I cannot find mention of wesi pulen. Frankly, I do not know when I first heard the term "wesi pulen", but I'm guessing it was from a dealer. My gut feeling is that it is a comparatively recent term to be applied to keris iron, because "pulen" is normally used to describe rice that sticks together, or a smooth dough, so it is really a description, rather than the name of a type, and used to describe an iron type, it becomes very clear exactly what characteristics you are looking for in an iron if you want to describe it as "wesi pulen".

6th February 2019, 08:44 AM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Alan and GC, Thank you for the very interesting discussion! In order to illustrate the subject for the non-specialists, are you able to show us a specimen of a blade with wesi pulen, although I realize that it may be difficult? Regards

6th February 2019, 09:57 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,133	Jean, I could probably come up with a blade that some people might consider to be wesi pulen --- but then others might not. The parameters of keris belief are not universal; they are not consistent. Even if you go back to the same person at a different time you might not get the same answer you got last time. This is Jawa we're dealing with Jean, it really does not work in any way similar to Paris France, or Sydney Australia.To survive in Jawa you need to be able to think in a different way. I do not ever use the old Javanese terms to refer to the various supposedly different types of iron. I appraise the material used to make a keris blade in purely trade terms, not keris collector terms, not keris study group terms. I ignore colour of wesi. If any iron is polished it will be shining white. If any iron is stained the colour will vary dependent upon the expertise of the person doing the stain, and upon the medium used to stain. One of the parameters used to appraise a keris is "guwaya". This refers purely to colour, whether it is a prestigious gleaming blue-black, or a muddy grey. Take that blade away, clean it, polish it, re-stain it, you can sometimes achieve a totally different guwaya. I do not subscribe to the varying parameters used by some Javanese keris collectors in the appraisal of iron.

6th February 2019, 03:06 PM	#4
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	Whilst there is physical colour and texture variation depending on the purity of iron, its working and its finishing process that is not what is meant by the sixteen types of wesi and their associated vowel sounds/colours. A knowledge of actually what these sixteen types of wesi truly represent, how to use them is the highest secret of the Keris and not something you can expect to be given a satisfactory answer to unless you have been initiated into that.

8th February 2019, 08:50 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,261	Thanks Kai! I had noted that comment earlier ad as going to post this link, but then got distracted by the conversation. Careful, we might make you a moderator yet.

9th February 2019, 06:43 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,133	This thread was opened with an enquiry about one type of iron (besi, wesi) wesi pulen. At the time it was opened, I was away from home, and was writing from memory, as I had no access to reference material, thus, my comments were rather superficial. But I'm home now. I actually have quite a lot of material that deals with the various types of iron that have been traditionally recognised by Javanese keris literate people. I have copies of everything on keris that can be found in the library of the Mangkunegaraan, I have copies of all the printed manuscripts that have been made available to Karaton Surakarta empus since the time of PBIX, I have copies of a good number of booklets that were published in Jawa in late colonial times, and I have the personal notebooks of some Solo based collectors, a couple of whom began their collecting before WWII. Of course, I have my own note books compiled over a 50 year period. I've got far too much material to make everything that I have on iron, available here, however, I have selected one booklet that is named simply "WESI AJI". The attribution is ultimately to Empu Ramadi, it was printed in Solo in 1928. Here is a listing of iron types:- 1) wesi karang kijang 2) wesi pulosani & karindhu aji 3) wesi mangangkang 4) wesi walulin 5) wesi katub 6) wesi kamboja 7) wesi ambal 8) wesi windu aji 9) wesi tumpang 10) wesi werani 11) wesi welangi 12) wesi terate 13) wesi malela ruyun 14) wesi malela kendaga 15) wesi kenur 16) wesi tumbuk 17) wesi balitung 16) wesi malik 17) mangangkang wadon 18) wesi windu hadi Following this listing of primary iron types, there is a further listing of what happens when two or more of these primary types are mixed together, which in all cases creates a new iron type that must be avoided because these new iron types are no good, and additionally have a bad character that will be transferred to anything made from that iron. There are at least 11 examples of this "bad" iron. After this second listing of "bad" irons, there is an explanation of the character and tuah of various irons. Then we have a listing of a further 11 irons that result from the mixing of already listed primary irons, plus a couple of additional irons. This second list of mixed irons identifies irons that are universally "good" and of a harmonious character. At the conclusion of this booklet there is a listing of irons that has been taken from the Kitab Jitapsoro (Sanghyang Nurroso):- 1) wesi wuriyan 2) wesi karangkijang (already listed from Empu Ramadi, but with a variation in description) 3) wesi jarimanten 4) wesi curandhamas 5) wesi danar/selipan/sesamad 6) wesi boji/rebeng 7) wesi kucur/menur perak 8) wesi grasak/tapel 9) garingsing/melik/pelikan We then have an explanation of "bad" irons that are permissible for use for an explicit purpose, at this point the text becomes very confused and repetitive, with additional irons thrown into the mix. The descriptions of the irons cover various ways in which they can be identified, including colour, feel, sound, it tells how and where they originate, their good and bad characteristics & etc & etc & etc. This is just one little booklet written based upon keris belief in Solo nearly 100 years ago. The problem with any identification of iron that is based upon the supposed attributes of an iron, is that those attributes can and do change depending upon the way in which the iron has been treated and the physical size of the piece. Then there is the variation in beliefs held by one group of people as compared with other groups of people. You may have noticed that wesi pulen does not get a mention in this booklet, which draws upon two older sources.However, if I read through the characteristics and identifiers of some of the listed iron types, there are several that could agree with the characteristics and identifiers used for wesi pulen. Moving away from old sources, we can fast forward to a little booklet that was written by Suwarsono Lumintu, who is in Jogjakarta a highly regarded keris authority, he published a little booklet :- "Besi, Baja dan Pamor Keris" in 1985. He lists 17 types of iron that are considered to be "good", 6 types that are considered to be "bad", then he lists irons that when mixed with other irons are "good" --- 21 types, and "bad", 11 types. He mentions the Kitab Jitapsoro, and lists 10 types of iron from that. The great poet Ronggowarsito also gets a mention, and a further 44 iron types get a mention, but not all by a name, many in this Ronggowarsito list are by description only. It seems to me that perhaps Lumintu used either the 1928 booklet, or some other similar booklet that drew upon the same original sources. But I cannot find mention of wesi pulen. Frankly, I do not know when I first heard the term "wesi pulen", but I'm guessing it was from a dealer. My gut feeling is that it is a comparatively recent term to be applied to keris iron, because "pulen" is normally used to describe rice that sticks together, or a smooth dough, so it is really a description, rather than the name of a type, and used to describe an iron type, it becomes very clear exactly what characteristics you are looking for in an iron if you want to describe it as "wesi pulen".