Filipino blade - what do I have here?

Robert · 3rd February 2019, 10:49 PM

It would seem a bit redundant to have a single soft copper pin go through the tang (weakening it by drilling) when it already extends completely through the hilt and butt plate and is then peened to secure the blade.

With this piece sporting silver fittings you might have the pin checked to see if it isn't a low grade gold alloy instead of copper.

This might also explain why most of them are now missing.

Best,
Robert

kai · 3rd February 2019, 11:28 PM

Hello Robert,

Quote:

It would seem a bit redundant to have a single soft copper pin go through the tang (weakening it by drilling) when it already extends completely through the hilt and butt plate and is then peened to secure the blade.

Yeah, I agree that wouldn't make sense with a peened tang.

Quote:

With this piece sporting silver fittings you might have the pin checked to see if it isn't a low grade gold alloy instead of copper.

This might also explain why most of them are now missing.

Thanks for the good idea - might well be red gold or decent suasa: No tarnishing visible with them while the silver retains quite some old tarnish...

I'll report back when I manage to obtain sound results!

Regards,
Kai

Robert · 3rd February 2019, 11:42 PM

The final fitting the tang extends through before being peened looks a bit yellow in your photos as well, so you might want to have it checked at the same time as the pins.

kai · 4th February 2019, 12:25 AM

Yes, will do, Robert!

Not keeping my breath though since this seems like a rather weird place for a soft metal. Thanks for sharing your thoughts though!

Regards,
Kai

Ian · 4th February 2019, 10:51 AM

Hi Kai,

Just to throw another possibility into the mix. Chisel-edged blades were also made in Batangas, according to information provided a decade or more ago by our friend Zelbone. Finely carved horn hilts were also seen from there in the late 19th and early 20th C. Batangas is not far from Laguna de Pays, so I think that general area south of Manila is where your knife originated.

I think you have a Tagalog knife with some Visayan influence in the blade, and Batangas is an area where that overlap can occur.

Ian.

Battara · 7th February 2019, 02:55 AM

Ian I wondered about that influence myself.

kronckew · 9th February 2019, 06:20 AM

The 'peened tang' could be just a nail used to hold the pommel piece on, as is done on many khukuri. An x-ray would confirm or deny the tang type.

More cheaply, you might get some info by using a strong super-magnet, running it along the grip to feel if it 'pulls' all the way along.

I also note that a small circular hole thru the tang along the neutral axis does not significantly weaken the blade. The neutral axis is a line where the blade & tang under load is under compressive loading above, and tensile loading below. On the line, there is essentially zero loading. It runs along the centre line on a normal rectangular section.

9th February 2019, 06:20 AM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,239	The 'peened tang' could be just a nail used to hold the pommel piece on, as is done on many khukuri. An x-ray would confirm or deny the tang type. More cheaply, you might get some info by using a strong super-magnet, running it along the grip to feel if it 'pulls' all the way along. I also note that a small circular hole thru the tang along the neutral axis does not significantly weaken the blade. The neutral axis is a line where the blade & tang under load is under compressive loading above, and tensile loading below. On the line, there is essentially zero loading. It runs along the centre line on a normal rectangular section. Last edited by kronckew; 9th February 2019 at 06:31 AM.

3rd February 2019, 10:49 PM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	It would seem a bit redundant to have a single soft copper pin go through the tang (weakening it by drilling) when it already extends completely through the hilt and butt plate and is then peened to secure the blade. With this piece sporting silver fittings you might have the pin checked to see if it isn't a low grade gold alloy instead of copper. This might also explain why most of them are now missing. Best, Robert

3rd February 2019, 11:42 PM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	The final fitting the tang extends through before being peened looks a bit yellow in your photos as well, so you might want to have it checked at the same time as the pins.

4th February 2019, 12:25 AM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Yes, will do, Robert! Not keeping my breath though since this seems like a rather weird place for a soft metal. Thanks for sharing your thoughts though! Regards, Kai

4th February 2019, 10:51 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Hi Kai, Just to throw another possibility into the mix. Chisel-edged blades were also made in Batangas, according to information provided a decade or more ago by our friend Zelbone. Finely carved horn hilts were also seen from there in the late 19th and early 20th C. Batangas is not far from Laguna de Pays, so I think that general area south of Manila is where your knife originated. I think you have a Tagalog knife with some Visayan influence in the blade, and Batangas is an area where that overlap can occur. Ian.

7th February 2019, 02:55 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	Ian I wondered about that influence myself.