Surakarta Pendok (Pendhok) Paper

David · 3rd February 2019, 12:06 AM

This shorter paper looks to have some of the same info in it along with some different stuff as well. Could serve as a good companion piece.

http://repository.isi-ska.ac.id/2419...RTA%20KRIS.pdf

Jean, these are in PDF form and you should be able to enlarge the page somewhat. While this still won't make the photos showing the making of a pendok extremely large i don't believe the intentional this paper was to be a how to for interested makers.

David · 3rd February 2019, 12:22 AM

It can truly be amazing sometimes when you ask Uncle Google and he is there for you. This appears to be yet another academic paper on Surakarta Pendoks. While it is clear that this author is using many of the same sources there are still different illustrations and information to be found in this one as well.
I think i have a bit of reading to do.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd February 2019, 12:37 AM

This new one looks to be better David, it has info. on how to identify pendok motifs. We know that most, if not all the pendok motifs come from batik motifs, often reworked, and this new paper seems to give info on that, which would be useful for keris people with no background in traditional Javanese motifs.

I have around a dozen books that deal with batik, and a couple of pendok pattern books that are foto-copies of maker's pattern books, if I cannot name a pendok motif from a pattern book, I then turn to the batik books.

I'll read this new one carefully as soon as I get a chance.

Jean, if you use Foxit Phantom to download the PDF you will find you can take enlargement up into several thousand magnifications, but the images you are talking about lose resolution after about 300X. Actually, the resolution is lousy no matter how low you take it, but I know what I'm looking at and my mind is filling in the spaces, I agree, if one is not familiar with this stuff, the images are pretty useless.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd February 2019, 12:46 AM

David, your post #9.

Yep, got a copy of this too, pity it was not all left in BI.

I wonder if the original is on the net? That little bit of BI at the beginning seems to indicate it was.

drdavid · 3rd February 2019, 10:07 AM

Same author on all of these. Alan, if you want a BI version you might get it by emailing the author who lists contact email
Drd

A. G. Maisey · 3rd February 2019, 11:20 AM

Yes David, Guntur is involved in all these publications, but they seem to have appeared in different publications and to vary somewhat.

I've read the first one carefully, I have not yet had time to look closely at the other two. After reading the first one, I felt that I was looking at a translation, and thought there might have been an original in BI, but now I am not so sure.

Why would an Indonesian academic publish in English? It doesn't make sense ---well, to me it doesn't make sense.

The only thing that an original in BI might do is to clarify some of the words used. Everything in these papers, I know myself in any case, so it would not add to my knowledge, but it would be of interest to me from a language point of view.I will not try to contact the author, I'd just as soon not incur a debt.

kai · 3rd February 2019, 04:16 PM

Hello Alan,

Quote:

Why would an Indonesian academic publish in English? It doesn't make sense ---well, to me it doesn't make sense.

Well, academia worldwide publishes in English, especially if it wants to make any impact. Partly, because publications in other languages tend to get ignored, partly because it confers a bit of status over publishing the same paper in an "odd" language, and last not least because the major journals only accept MSs in English...

Quote:

I will not try to contact the author, I'd just as soon not incur a debt.

Theoretically, in academia this would be regarded as obligation rather than something which incurs a debt. I'm aware that this probably would be seen a bit differently in some countries and circles though...

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 3rd February 2019, 08:31 PM

Kai, your comment on the reason for use of English is undoubtedly correct, and in fact, for a few years now there has been a general tendency in several fields, in Indonesia, notably amongst TV presenters, to break into English at the drop of a hat. It is seen as a status thing and draws some rather scathing comments from the general public.So status, yes, major journals, yes.Additionally, the audience for whom it was intended, even if Indonesian, would mostly read English, I believe.

So perhaps my comment was ill-considered, but then, I do not often think long and carefully before commenting, I mostly tend to shoot from the hip.

It that part of Indonesia where this writer is located, each sub-culture, and academia is a sub-culture, reflects the mores of the society at large. As I have said, my interest in an original (if one exists) is focused on use of language, it is not focused on the information contained in the paper. I would much rather not pursue the matter, bearing in mind my reason for doing so.

3rd February 2019, 12:06 AM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	This shorter paper looks to have some of the same info in it along with some different stuff as well. Could serve as a good companion piece. http://repository.isi-ska.ac.id/2419...RTA%20KRIS.pdf Jean, these are in PDF form and you should be able to enlarge the page somewhat. While this still won't make the photos showing the making of a pendok extremely large i don't believe the intentional this paper was to be a how to for interested makers.

3rd February 2019, 12:37 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	This new one looks to be better David, it has info. on how to identify pendok motifs. We know that most, if not all the pendok motifs come from batik motifs, often reworked, and this new paper seems to give info on that, which would be useful for keris people with no background in traditional Javanese motifs. I have around a dozen books that deal with batik, and a couple of pendok pattern books that are foto-copies of maker's pattern books, if I cannot name a pendok motif from a pattern book, I then turn to the batik books. I'll read this new one carefully as soon as I get a chance. Jean, if you use Foxit Phantom to download the PDF you will find you can take enlargement up into several thousand magnifications, but the images you are talking about lose resolution after about 300X. Actually, the resolution is lousy no matter how low you take it, but I know what I'm looking at and my mind is filling in the spaces, I agree, if one is not familiar with this stuff, the images are pretty useless.

3rd February 2019, 12:46 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	David, your post #9. Yep, got a copy of this too, pity it was not all left in BI. I wonder if the original is on the net? That little bit of BI at the beginning seems to indicate it was.

3rd February 2019, 10:07 AM	#5
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 372	Same author on all of these. Alan, if you want a BI version you might get it by emailing the author who lists contact email Drd

3rd February 2019, 11:20 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Yes David, Guntur is involved in all these publications, but they seem to have appeared in different publications and to vary somewhat. I've read the first one carefully, I have not yet had time to look closely at the other two. After reading the first one, I felt that I was looking at a translation, and thought there might have been an original in BI, but now I am not so sure. Why would an Indonesian academic publish in English? It doesn't make sense ---well, to me it doesn't make sense. The only thing that an original in BI might do is to clarify some of the words used. Everything in these papers, I know myself in any case, so it would not add to my knowledge, but it would be of interest to me from a language point of view.I will not try to contact the author, I'd just as soon not incur a debt.

3rd February 2019, 08:31 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Kai, your comment on the reason for use of English is undoubtedly correct, and in fact, for a few years now there has been a general tendency in several fields, in Indonesia, notably amongst TV presenters, to break into English at the drop of a hat. It is seen as a status thing and draws some rather scathing comments from the general public.So status, yes, major journals, yes.Additionally, the audience for whom it was intended, even if Indonesian, would mostly read English, I believe. So perhaps my comment was ill-considered, but then, I do not often think long and carefully before commenting, I mostly tend to shoot from the hip. It that part of Indonesia where this writer is located, each sub-culture, and academia is a sub-culture, reflects the mores of the society at large. As I have said, my interest in an original (if one exists) is focused on use of language, it is not focused on the information contained in the paper. I would much rather not pursue the matter, bearing in mind my reason for doing so.