A beautiful 17th century hanger

M ELEY · 29th January 2019, 12:23 AM

Norm, you are a life saver! This was the thread that I was speaking of, with comments by Jim McD. and Dmitry. As I stated also, I've seen identified English swords (usually early, pre-1750's) with the fleur-de-lis stamp...of course, per this thread, it could have been the German blade makers using the symbol all along. Interestingly, you will note the sword in post#9 of this old thread is an American Revolutionary War horseman's saber, yet it still has the "French" symbol.

Richard G · 29th January 2019, 01:53 PM

Some things I notice about the heads on this sword which may or may not have significance;-

William and Mary were made joint monarchs, but only one head is crowned.

The crowned head is on the inside of the guard when I would have assumed, being presumably the more important, it would be on the outside.

The head on the inside of the guard appears to be the wrong way round i.e. with the crown towards the grip. Certainly both heads are not the same orientation.

With respect to the fleur-de-lys see attached
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/246...ngth=90&page=1

Regards
Richard

M ELEY · 29th January 2019, 03:13 PM

Hello Richard,

I, too, noticed the lack of a crown over the feminine (?) opposing faced head. I thought it odd and disrespectful, but then again, the German craftsmen might have been a little chauvinist perhaps?

Thanks for the pic from the other auction at least verifying that there are other so called William and Mary hangers out there (ouch! Sold for less than half of what I paid!)
Mark

Richard G · 29th January 2019, 06:37 PM

Mark,
It's a shame there were no more photo's on the Bonham's site. I'm sure I've seen more, but can't remember where or when, or much of the detail.
William and Mary coinage usually has a profile of each, one in front of the other, and guess who's always at the front?
Regards
Richard

Norman McCormick · 30th January 2019, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Norm, you are a life saver! This was the thread that I was speaking of, with comments by Jim McD. and Dmitry.

Mark you are very welcome

My Regards,
Norman.

M ELEY · 31st January 2019, 05:27 AM

Stumbled on this by complete accident. A relic from the Queen Anne's Revenge! Unfortunately, the pommel with the possible faces of William and Mary aren't displayed, just the guard. We do have the description, though, as well as another sword referenced in the Williamsburg collection.

https://www.qaronline.org/conservati...bladed-weapons

31st January 2019, 05:27 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	Remains of sword hilt Stumbled on this by complete accident. A relic from the Queen Anne's Revenge! Unfortunately, the pommel with the possible faces of William and Mary aren't displayed, just the guard. We do have the description, though, as well as another sword referenced in the Williamsburg collection. https://www.qaronline.org/conservati...bladed-weapons

29th January 2019, 12:23 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	Norm, you are a life saver! This was the thread that I was speaking of, with comments by Jim McD. and Dmitry. As I stated also, I've seen identified English swords (usually early, pre-1750's) with the fleur-de-lis stamp...of course, per this thread, it could have been the German blade makers using the symbol all along. Interestingly, you will note the sword in post#9 of this old thread is an American Revolutionary War horseman's saber, yet it still has the "French" symbol.

29th January 2019, 01:53 PM	#2
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 411	Some things I notice about the heads on this sword which may or may not have significance;- William and Mary were made joint monarchs, but only one head is crowned. The crowned head is on the inside of the guard when I would have assumed, being presumably the more important, it would be on the outside. The head on the inside of the guard appears to be the wrong way round i.e. with the crown towards the grip. Certainly both heads are not the same orientation. With respect to the fleur-de-lys see attached https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/246...ngth=90&page=1 Regards Richard

29th January 2019, 03:13 PM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	Hello Richard, I, too, noticed the lack of a crown over the feminine (?) opposing faced head. I thought it odd and disrespectful, but then again, the German craftsmen might have been a little chauvinist perhaps? Thanks for the pic from the other auction at least verifying that there are other so called William and Mary hangers out there (ouch! Sold for less than half of what I paid!) Mark

29th January 2019, 06:37 PM	#4
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 411	Mark, It's a shame there were no more photo's on the Bonham's site. I'm sure I've seen more, but can't remember where or when, or much of the detail. William and Mary coinage usually has a profile of each, one in front of the other, and guess who's always at the front? Regards Richard