Indian "executioner" Tulwar

PUFF · 11th April 2006, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting
I cannot believe it was used for execution (decapitation?) purpose. Executioner swords all over the world had two-handed grips and the T-spine is counterproductive on a purely slashing sword. It would only impede a clean cut-through action of decapitation.

Thai executioner always use only one-handed Dahb.

And here are their "tools". (sorry that the page 's in Thai)
http://www.correct.go.th/mu/index5.html

Titus Pullo · 11th April 2006, 05:06 AM

Nice link, PUFF! Thanks!

Jim McDougall · 16th April 2006, 11:54 PM

Very unusual 'hybrid'. Exactly as noted, this is the blade of a Khyber knife (Salawar yatahan) from typically Afridi and associated tribes of Khyber regions. I personally have never seen a tulwar hilt mounted on one of these, however during the British Raj, the armourers there became quite creative. As we have seen in previous posts of the last couple of years these blades have been mounted in the 'Anglo-Afghan' hilts of Afghan army sabres from end of the 19th century, but it seems doubtful such a blade would have been used in India for a tulwar . The 'executioner' denominator is often imaginitive and often appled to any Oriental sword with exaggerated proportioned blades.
Thus, it is possible that this sword may have been put together in the Northwest Frontier sometime in the early 20th century, but it is completely atypical of the swords usually used in those regions.
All the best,
Jim

BluErf · 17th April 2006, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PUFF

Thai executioner always use only one-handed Dahb.

And here are their "tools". (sorry that the page 's in Thai)
http://www.correct.go.th/mu/index5.html

I saw the huge cleaver in the webpage. When do the executioners use that cleaver, and when do they use the darb?

Valjhun · 17th April 2006, 06:37 PM

If we stick with the topic. It is a rehilted khyber. Thoose are not rare at all. In the anglo afgan war, brittains employed indian sepoys for fighting the afgans. Think about some looted tulwar, wich hilt was used for rehilting a khyber blade. I can immagine that this was done frequently during thoose years. Take a look at page 243 of Tirri's book.

Titus Pullo · 18th April 2006, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

I saw the huge cleaver in the webpage. When do the executioners use that cleaver, and when do they use the darb?

I read the writing. I think it's for cutting off the feet so that the rope can be taken off after the person has been excecuted. The rope is there to hold the person down tightly, while the ritual dance is being perform.

ariel · 18th April 2006, 12:39 PM

You want to tell us that there were different implements for each stage of execution? Why didn't they use the same Dha (Darb, Dahb

)to cut the rope afterwards? Any ritual significance?

PUFF · 18th April 2006, 12:59 PM

Nah, not for cutting the rope. But for cleaving the feet.

In some case, the criminal have to wear chain/ring (seems to be hammered in place, no lock, no key). And cutting the feet off seems to be easier than hammering it out.

Dahb 's a weapon and it 's considered to be too high for such purpose. That 's why they use a meat cleaver.

PS: My appologies for being off topic again

11th April 2006, 05:06 AM	#2
Titus Pullo Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 123	Nice link, PUFF! Thanks!

16th April 2006, 11:54 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,299	Very unusual 'hybrid'. Exactly as noted, this is the blade of a Khyber knife (Salawar yatahan) from typically Afridi and associated tribes of Khyber regions. I personally have never seen a tulwar hilt mounted on one of these, however during the British Raj, the armourers there became quite creative. As we have seen in previous posts of the last couple of years these blades have been mounted in the 'Anglo-Afghan' hilts of Afghan army sabres from end of the 19th century, but it seems doubtful such a blade would have been used in India for a tulwar . The 'executioner' denominator is often imaginitive and often appled to any Oriental sword with exaggerated proportioned blades. Thus, it is possible that this sword may have been put together in the Northwest Frontier sometime in the early 20th century, but it is completely atypical of the swords usually used in those regions. All the best, Jim

17th April 2006, 06:37 PM	#5
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	If we stick with the topic. It is a rehilted khyber. Thoose are not rare at all. In the anglo afgan war, brittains employed indian sepoys for fighting the afgans. Think about some looted tulwar, wich hilt was used for rehilting a khyber blade. I can immagine that this was done frequently during thoose years. Take a look at page 243 of Tirri's book.

18th April 2006, 12:39 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	You want to tell us that there were different implements for each stage of execution? Why didn't they use the same Dha (Darb, Dahb )to cut the rope afterwards? Any ritual significance?

18th April 2006, 12:59 PM	#8
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	Nah, not for cutting the rope. But for cleaving the feet. In some case, the criminal have to wear chain/ring (seems to be hammered in place, no lock, no key). And cutting the feet off seems to be easier than hammering it out. Dahb 's a weapon and it 's considered to be too high for such purpose. That 's why they use a meat cleaver. PS: My appologies for being off topic again