Pedang with unusual point

Jens Nordlunde · 11th October 2018, 04:04 PM

Alan, thank you very much for your 'EDIT', it is most interesting.
A better understanding of how they were thinking at the time - which logic they used - is very much asked for, but it is likely not easy to find.

A. G. Maisey · 12th October 2018, 12:30 AM

Actually Jens, this "lord : servant" line of thought permeates Javanese society until the present day, I can still see it active in many ways in Solonese society, but perhaps less so in some other parts of Jawa. For example, a servant who has given long service to a family more or less becomes part of the family, and when that person leaves the family service because of age or other necessity, is still considered a part of the family and assisted in time of need, even though no longer employed. That assistance might be a small pension or if this is not needed a more considerable assistance in the case of illness or other circumstance.

Similarly with a straight-out employee of a business, where that employment has extended over a lengthy period, the employee and his employer (if both are of a traditional frame of mind) will see a continuing obligation, one unto the other, even though the day-to-day employment has finished.

The idea of a defective person being related to a second rate crop produced in the dry season, can I believe, be seen in societies other than just Jawa, similar ideas applied to differing entities can be identified in languages other than Javanese.

I personally see both these things as an expression of the ideal patriarchal societal model:- the father has an obligation and a duty to support and assist the family : the family has an obligation and a duty to assist the father, thereby assisting and strengthening the family. This is then reflected in the nature of the broader society.

Of course, today we can see the dominant policy of societal management as division facilitated by a strategy of tension, thus many societies lack the cohesion that a patriarchal, or even a matriarchal philosophy can engender.

It can be quite enlightening to consider the strengths and weaknesses of differing societal models and compare one unto the other. Entertaining too, I guess.

11th October 2018, 04:04 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Alan, thank you very much for your 'EDIT', it is most interesting. A better understanding of how they were thinking at the time - which logic they used - is very much asked for, but it is likely not easy to find. Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 11th October 2018 at 04:32 PM.

12th October 2018, 12:30 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Actually Jens, this "lord : servant" line of thought permeates Javanese society until the present day, I can still see it active in many ways in Solonese society, but perhaps less so in some other parts of Jawa. For example, a servant who has given long service to a family more or less becomes part of the family, and when that person leaves the family service because of age or other necessity, is still considered a part of the family and assisted in time of need, even though no longer employed. That assistance might be a small pension or if this is not needed a more considerable assistance in the case of illness or other circumstance. Similarly with a straight-out employee of a business, where that employment has extended over a lengthy period, the employee and his employer (if both are of a traditional frame of mind) will see a continuing obligation, one unto the other, even though the day-to-day employment has finished. The idea of a defective person being related to a second rate crop produced in the dry season, can I believe, be seen in societies other than just Jawa, similar ideas applied to differing entities can be identified in languages other than Javanese. I personally see both these things as an expression of the ideal patriarchal societal model:- the father has an obligation and a duty to support and assist the family : the family has an obligation and a duty to assist the father, thereby assisting and strengthening the family. This is then reflected in the nature of the broader society. Of course, today we can see the dominant policy of societal management as division facilitated by a strategy of tension, thus many societies lack the cohesion that a patriarchal, or even a matriarchal philosophy can engender. It can be quite enlightening to consider the strengths and weaknesses of differing societal models and compare one unto the other. Entertaining too, I guess.