Matchlock gun of Afghanistan?

rickystl · 2nd September 2018, 03:40 PM

The stock carving of the gun in the O.P. also say India, rather than Afghanistan.

Hi Richard

Yes, that was one point I was trying to make. Much agreed.

Rick

ariel · 2nd September 2018, 03:55 PM

Rick,

Thanks for your input.
As to bi-pods: they could have been attached sometime during the working life of the imported Indian ( Indore?) gun, couldn’t they?

rickystl · 2nd September 2018, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Rick,

Thanks for your input.
As to bi-pods: they could have been attached sometime during the working life of the imported Indian ( Indore?) gun, couldn’t they?

Hi Ariel

I'm sure that's possible, even likely. There may even be examples, I just haven't seen any. The Afghans seemed to have a preference for shooting their long guns from bipods or resting on rocks on cliffs, or other means of support.
Which would work well since their long guns tended to have front-heavy barrels.

Rick

mahratt · 3rd September 2018, 11:26 AM

Hello All

Thank you for the interesting discussion.

Dima

P.S. Rick, by the way, I'm sure that you know that the Afghans did not always use bipods when firing from traditional guns:

rickystl · 3rd September 2018, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

Hello All

Thank you for the interesting discussion.

Dima

P.S. Rick, by the way, I'm sure that you know that the Afghans did not always use bipods when firing from traditional guns:

Hi Mahratt

Thank you once again for the great photo !!! I don't have this one either. Great pic. Thank you.
A bit off the subject here: Viewing these original photos and illistrations, I can't help notice the wide spread use of the tulwar sword. My knowledge of blades is very limited. But it seems that the tulwar must have been one of the most popular swords ever used. (?) I see them everywhere. LOL

Rick

mahratt · 3rd September 2018, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Mahratt

Thank you once again for the great photo !!! I don't have this one either. Great pic. Thank you.
A bit off the subject here: Viewing these original photos and illistrations, I can't help notice the wide spread use of the tulwar sword. My knowledge of blades is very limited. But it seems that the tulwar must have been one of the most popular swords ever used. (?) I see them everywhere. LOL

Rick

Hello Rick!

I'm glad that you liked the photo.
You're absolutely right. Many believe that the Afghans used the Pulowars. And it is true. But the Tulwars were also widely distributed. By the way, in Afghanistan , used, and Tulwars made by local craftsmen, and Tulwars from India.

Dima

Quote:

Originally Posted by Likhari

Gentlemen !

The inscription reads :

Raja Jaipur - Tahsil Baswa - Number 187.

Baswa was an administrative subdivision(Tahsil) in the Dausa Nizamat which was a part of Jaipur State in Rajputana, India. It is currently located in the State of Rajasthan in the NorthWest of India.

Hope this helps.

Thank you! It is very interesting

Dima

ariel · 3rd September 2018, 11:19 PM

Afghani swords are interesting in their own right and serve as a reminder of a mix of site-specific and generic “ Indian” traditions, just like their guns,

Pulwars have features reminding of both S. Indian ( cup-like closed pommel) and Persian ( down-turned quillons with “ dragon heads”) features. Their blades are often very thick and narrow, some have peculiar fuller structure ( usually one or more parallel fullers by the spine interrupted with plain areas, often with a box-like element close to the handle) and a rivet in the quillon block in case of Afghani tulwars.

But, as Elgood has instructed us, swords from the Indo-Persian area need to be viewed blade and handle separately: most of them have been rehilted more than once. An amusing example of it is the fact that Indian swords in the Victoria & Albert museum, collected early in the 19th century, often have mismatched combinations locality and age-wise. But in the Wallace collection they all match perfectly, likely because after ~1870 when the collection was assembled most sumptuous swords were made in the royal workshops as gifts and souvenirs.

I have a couple of mismatched Afghani- Indian examples, but we are in the midst of a thunderstorm and it is too dark for photography.

If anybody is interested, I can do it one day upon request.

rickystl · 3rd September 2018, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Rick,

Thanks for your input.
As to bi-pods: they could have been attached sometime during the working life of the imported Indian ( Indore?) gun, couldn’t they?

Hi Ariel

I'm sure these bi-pods were made as a seperate accessory. So they could have been added earlier or later in the gun's life.
A few years ago a fellow Forum member sent me a PM with a heads-up about an upcoming auction. There was a bi-pod (only) going up for bid. It looked Afghan made and was in very good original condition. It was unique in that it had a hand forged "U" shape clamp that would allow the shooter to attach or detach the bipod within seconds. This would be much preferred versus drilling a hole in the forestock to attach the bi-pod. But I didn't see the PM till it was too late to register. DARN. Wonder who the lucky winner was ? LOL

Rick

3rd September 2018, 11:26 AM	#4
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Hello All Thank you for the interesting discussion. Dima P.S. Rick, by the way, I'm sure that you know that the Afghans did not always use bipods when firing from traditional guns: Attached Images

2nd September 2018, 03:40 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	The stock carving of the gun in the O.P. also say India, rather than Afghanistan. Hi Richard Yes, that was one point I was trying to make. Much agreed. Rick

2nd September 2018, 03:55 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Rick, Thanks for your input. As to bi-pods: they could have been attached sometime during the working life of the imported Indian ( Indore?) gun, couldn’t they?

3rd September 2018, 11:19 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Afghani swords are interesting in their own right and serve as a reminder of a mix of site-specific and generic “ Indian” traditions, just like their guns, Pulwars have features reminding of both S. Indian ( cup-like closed pommel) and Persian ( down-turned quillons with “ dragon heads”) features. Their blades are often very thick and narrow, some have peculiar fuller structure ( usually one or more parallel fullers by the spine interrupted with plain areas, often with a box-like element close to the handle) and a rivet in the quillon block in case of Afghani tulwars. But, as Elgood has instructed us, swords from the Indo-Persian area need to be viewed blade and handle separately: most of them have been rehilted more than once. An amusing example of it is the fact that Indian swords in the Victoria & Albert museum, collected early in the 19th century, often have mismatched combinations locality and age-wise. But in the Wallace collection they all match perfectly, likely because after ~1870 when the collection was assembled most sumptuous swords were made in the royal workshops as gifts and souvenirs. I have a couple of mismatched Afghani- Indian examples, but we are in the midst of a thunderstorm and it is too dark for photography. If anybody is interested, I can do it one day upon request.