A 19th century naval dirk from Eastern Europe??

Tim Simmons · 6th April 2006, 04:39 PM

This dirk does look like it did belong to a naval officer. I am not sure about the first one, it does not smack of officer stuff. If you look at the guard on the first example and the Indian? knife there is similarity too. It might just be a naval fighting knife maybe that is why the scabbard lacks that 19th cent officer quality.

Rick · 6th April 2006, 05:35 PM

If the piece under discussion is indeed a Mid's dirk then we may have to take into account that not all Midshipmen came from the same social strata ; some even came up through the Hawse Hole . One carried what one could afford .

not2sharp · 9th April 2006, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

If the piece under discussion is indeed a Mid's dirk then we may have to take into account that not all Midshipmen came from the same social strata ; some even came up through the Hawse Hole . One carried what one could afford .

The period should also be factored in. This example may be early dirk. The Scottish dirk during this period went from a rather ordinary if serious looking fighting knife to become an elaborate largely ornamental item of dress.

n2s

Jim McDougall · 10th April 2006, 04:06 AM

Hi Ariel,
The "Swords for Sea Service" volumes I guess became sort of standard reference for British regulation swords over 20 years ago when I was involved in that sector of collecting. The Gilkerson book is actually recent and also from London.
Thanks very much for the compliment

!!!
All the best,
Jim

Dmitry · 14th August 2009, 07:52 AM

IMHO, this piece has nothing to do with naval dirks, aside from similar silhouettes. Nor do I see any attempts to emulate period naval dirks in its composition.
As for its proper and definite provenance, I'm afraid I don't have much input. To me it looks like a fantasy piece, perhaps from the Middle East.

Bryan.H · 15th August 2009, 08:03 AM

Just going by the dimensions of the handle (that may accomodate a hand 2.5 inches wide), and looking at the finger-grips, this would seem to be a sword for a child. Even tulwar disc-pommel grips, which are very small, are bigger than this. On a different tack, "minature" swords are known from Europe to Mexico, for cadets, for hunting (as an aristocratic past-time) and status etc.

15th August 2009, 08:03 AM	#6
Bryan.H Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 51	Boy's sword / Hunting Hanger? Just going by the dimensions of the handle (that may accomodate a hand 2.5 inches wide), and looking at the finger-grips, this would seem to be a sword for a child. Even tulwar disc-pommel grips, which are very small, are bigger than this. On a different tack, "minature" swords are known from Europe to Mexico, for cadets, for hunting (as an aristocratic past-time) and status etc.

6th April 2006, 04:39 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	This dirk does look like it did belong to a naval officer. I am not sure about the first one, it does not smack of officer stuff. If you look at the guard on the first example and the Indian? knife there is similarity too. It might just be a naval fighting knife maybe that is why the scabbard lacks that 19th cent officer quality.

6th April 2006, 05:35 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	If the piece under discussion is indeed a Mid's dirk then we may have to take into account that not all Midshipmen came from the same social strata ; some even came up through the Hawse Hole . One carried what one could afford .

10th April 2006, 04:06 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,283	Hi Ariel, The "Swords for Sea Service" volumes I guess became sort of standard reference for British regulation swords over 20 years ago when I was involved in that sector of collecting. The Gilkerson book is actually recent and also from London. Thanks very much for the compliment !!! All the best, Jim

14th August 2009, 07:52 AM	#5
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	IMHO, this piece has nothing to do with naval dirks, aside from similar silhouettes. Nor do I see any attempts to emulate period naval dirks in its composition. As for its proper and definite provenance, I'm afraid I don't have much input. To me it looks like a fantasy piece, perhaps from the Middle East.