Matchlock gun of Afghanistan?

[mahratt]

Hi Corodo

I agree with Rick. This is clearly a matchlock of Indian origin. Theoretically, this matchlock could be used in Afghanistan. Curve reminds me not Afghan style, but rather Sind style.

Dima

[BANDOOK]

Greetings Corodo
The barrel is definitely from India and its Hindi/Marwari script[spoken in Rajasthan],clearly says Jaipur with date,picture of script not clear ,do send a good image and I can translate it for you
regards
Rajesh

[corrado26]

Thanks a lot at all for their answers. Unfortunately I have no other pictures to send, but my friend is very happy with the result of your answers. Thanks a lot once more
corrado26

[ariel]

I am a bit confused. Binding is the last thing put on something during the final assembly, and rattan is very prone to natural destruction. Its use implies its abundance for easy replacement.
AFAIK, rattan is endemic to hot wet areas : SE Asia from Burma and Sri Lanka to Malaysia , Indonesia etc. It is a jungle plant.
Does it grow in Afghanistan or NW India with their largely desert-y climate? I checked Wiki “ rattan” and could not find it being mentioned there. In fact, the only time Afghanistan was mentioned as an importer of rattan from Thailand.
Do we know of widespread use of rattan in weaponry or other products in those areas?
Just wondering...

[BANDOOK]

hi Ariel
For your kind information there is plenty of rattan [variety of jungle grass\cane}in the indian subcontinent,usually for making colonial style furniture, and household impliments,Lot of Naga and Assam weapons have rattan used ,could be easily traded with neigbouring countrys .
regards
Rajesh

[ariel]

True enough. But this is East India where rattan is abundant, and I was asking about NW India + Afghanistan.
Any grassy materiel, rattan included, must be quite perishable , especially when it is attached to hot rifle barrels. This would require easy access to cheap replacements. Owners of primitive village -made guns were unlikely to buy imported materials time and time again. They would go for something simple and resilient: metal wire or brackets.

This is why the idea of Rickystl about South India might have merit. We see a lot of rattan on SEA weapons. As a matter of fact, their mere presence allowed SEA experts among us immediately attribute them to SEA, Indonesia, Philippines etc.

Do you have documented Afghani or Sindhi examples of guns with rattan bindings?

[fernando]

Although not so recurrent, Toradars exist that may be seen with rattan binding. What i find more intriguing than this raw material appearing in areas out of its natural environment, is that (some) gun smiths bind their barrels with such perishable stuff, instead of the massively used metallic bands, which can be saved from any disposables, like old wire or tin recipients.
Could it be aesthetics ?

(Courtesy Ambrose Antiques)

.

[mahratt]

I apologize, but you very inattentively read the message. I wrote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

Hi Corodo
I agree with Rick. This is clearly a matchlock of Indian origin. Theoretically, this matchlock could be used in Afghanistan. Curve reminds me not Afghan style, but rather Sind style.
Dima

I will be very grateful if you tell me in what message I assumed that this matchlock is of Afghan originаl.

Originally Posted by ariel

I think you missed the point: preponderance of evidence is in favor of South Indian origin, but not ,- as you suggested,- Afghani and most certainly not Sindhi.

So which of us did not understand the essence? I wrote in the third message that this is an Indian matchlock that could be in Afghanistan. You wrote the same thing at the very end of topic, when this everything was already clear to all the participants

I see that you have not completely understood the topic, since you are writing again:

Originally Posted by ariel

Moser's example #491 is from Sindh although he called it Afghani.

Afghanistan is a multinational country. The well-known fact that in the south of Afghanistan in the 19th century lived (and lives now) Balochi tribe (which the British in the 19th century were called Afghans). Balochi actively used Sind-type matchlocks (there are many evidences to this - for example, look at the image). It is strange to assume that such mathlocks from Sind were unable to enter the more northern regions of Afghanistan.
Moreover, the movement of matchlocks from Sind throughout the territory of Afghanistan is proved by the fact that Henry Moser bought such a this matchlock in Turkestan. And we have already found out that the rifle was brought to Turkestan not by plane, bypassing Afghanistan. I hope now you understand why Moser called the matchlock from Sind - Afghan matchlock. Not because it was made in Afghanistan, but because it was used in Afghanistan

[rickystl]

Hey !! Neat drawing. I'll save this in my library. Thanks.

Rick

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hey !! Neat drawing. I'll save this in my library. Thanks.

Rick

Rick, if it's interesting, I can place a photo of Balochs with Sind-type rifles in the subject as well. By the way, the image that I laid out is 1879.

[corrado26]

It was very interesting to follow the discussion caused by my question and I have to thank all participants who entered their contributions.
corrado26

[bhushan_lawate]

Clearly of Indian origin. it has an inventory no. "188???" and Jaipur along with the name of the district "Dhamwa???"

a couple of clearer snaps will be helpful..

[ariel]

Originally Posted by bhushan_lawate

Clearly of Indian origin. it has an inventory no. "188???" and Jaipur along with the name of the district "Dhamwa???"

a couple of clearer snaps will be helpful..

Of course. There is no doubt it is from India: the inscription is indisputable.
The question is , whence in India?
Obviously, it is not Sindhi.
Afghanistan has very weak support: only one known jezail with rattan bindings.
Calling it Afghani because it was bought nearby is amusing: naan and samosas bought in the US remain purely Indian food. We are discussing here ethnic origins of weapons, not their trade routes. That is IMHO, the root of the confusion.

Since you are located in India and obviously interested in weapons, could you pitch in?
My sources are limited: two guns from Ashoka Arts and Egerton’s example #139 show similar stocks from South India.
Nothing in the collections from Leeds and Mysore Palace.
But there are at least 10 of those ( obviously much more lavish) in the Sandringham collection and those are firmly attributed to Indore ( Central India).

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Rick, if it's interesting, I can place a photo of Balochs with Sind-type rifles in the subject as well. By the way, the image that I laid out is 1879.

Thank you very much. That would be great.

Rick

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Thank you very much. That would be great.

Rick

No problem

Dima