Wootz afghan knife for komments

ariel · 6th August 2018, 02:30 AM

As far as I remember, these strongly recurved examples and reinforced tips with sharp edges on both sides were called Zirah Bouk: mail piercers. You can Google the images. Pesh Kabz are as a rule ( or exclusively) single edged.
I am not exactly enthusiastic about the handles, especially on the second one: they look like crude replacements ( from the active life of the dagger, most likely).

rumpel9 · 6th August 2018, 09:44 PM

However, for Zirah Bouk such blades are not quite typical. I mean the T-shaped spine of the blade. As for the hilt, on the karud (the second knife) the hilt in my opinion was really replaced in a later period. But the first knife most likely was made from the very beginning with such a handle.

ariel · 6th August 2018, 11:08 PM

T-spine?
Here are Zirah Bouks with it.

ariel · 6th August 2018, 11:25 PM

Glad we agree on the second dagger's handle. As to the first one, IMHO it is also not original, but this is merely my IMHO, And even if this Zirah Bouk was born with this handle, the blade is also not typical. But who said that Indian bladesmiths always rigidly followed some ministry-approved patterns and never ventured into a little bit of improvisation? Look at Khybers length, geometry ( straight, curved, recurved), handles. Bladesmithing was not an industrial operation: different masters with different skill levels, from different tribes and villages had a general gestalt of a weapon and let their fantasies run wild.
One googles " zirah bouk images" and finds everything and anything.

In my book it is a Zirah Bouk:-)

rumpel9 · 7th August 2018, 07:53 PM

Ariel, you're right. I was wrong about T-type back of Zirah Bouk. it's not unusual. However, for me there is still a question: which people which region did the handles of this type belong to?

mariusgmioc · 8th August 2018, 10:47 AM

Hello Ariel,
In my opinion, all the knives you show in your posting are clearly Pesh-kabz.
It is very common for Indian Pesk-kabz to have a strengthened tip.
My two cents...

PS: Please note that the knife in question does NOT even have a strengthened tip but a clipped tip! So, in my oppinion, a Zirah bouk is out of the question.

mahratt · 8th August 2018, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Hello Ariel,
In my opinion, all the knives you show in your posting are clearly Pesh-kabz.
It is very common for Indian Pesk-kabz to have a strengthened tip.
My two cents...

Hello, Marius

I think you are right. Here is a typical Zirah Bouk. As you can see, T-spine of Zirah Bouk - it's unusual:

6th August 2018, 11:08 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	T-spine? Here are Zirah Bouks with it. Attached Images

8th August 2018, 10:47 AM	#6
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,912	Hello Ariel, In my opinion, all the knives you show in your posting are clearly Pesh-kabz. It is very common for Indian Pesk-kabz to have a strengthened tip. My two cents... PS: Please note that the knife in question does NOT even have a strengthened tip but a clipped tip! So, in my oppinion, a Zirah bouk is out of the question. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 8th August 2018 at 11:43 PM.

6th August 2018, 02:30 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	As far as I remember, these strongly recurved examples and reinforced tips with sharp edges on both sides were called Zirah Bouk: mail piercers. You can Google the images. Pesh Kabz are as a rule ( or exclusively) single edged. I am not exactly enthusiastic about the handles, especially on the second one: they look like crude replacements ( from the active life of the dagger, most likely).

6th August 2018, 09:44 PM	#2
rumpel9 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 68	However, for Zirah Bouk such blades are not quite typical. I mean the T-shaped spine of the blade. As for the hilt, on the karud (the second knife) the hilt in my opinion was really replaced in a later period. But the first knife most likely was made from the very beginning with such a handle.

6th August 2018, 11:25 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Glad we agree on the second dagger's handle. As to the first one, IMHO it is also not original, but this is merely my IMHO, And even if this Zirah Bouk was born with this handle, the blade is also not typical. But who said that Indian bladesmiths always rigidly followed some ministry-approved patterns and never ventured into a little bit of improvisation? Look at Khybers length, geometry ( straight, curved, recurved), handles. Bladesmithing was not an industrial operation: different masters with different skill levels, from different tribes and villages had a general gestalt of a weapon and let their fantasies run wild. One googles " zirah bouk images" and finds everything and anything. In my book it is a Zirah Bouk:-)

7th August 2018, 07:53 PM	#5
rumpel9 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 68	Ariel, you're right. I was wrong about T-type back of Zirah Bouk. it's not unusual. However, for me there is still a question: which people which region did the handles of this type belong to?