Lobster Tail Helmet

kronckew · 30th July 2018, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

As the lobster tail is made from one single part and no parts are moveable I cannot see the sence of the three strabs at the insite of the tail - very strange ......
corrado26

Stiffeners?

Victrix · 30th July 2018, 12:08 PM

These lobster tail helmets were used over a very wide geographical area at a time of intense armament and conflict. They were derived from the Ottoman cicek helmets which were adopted by the lighter Hungarian (medieval territory encompassing a number of nationalities in those days) hussar cavalry. They were then adopted by the Poles (as seen in their famous heavy winged hussar cavalry). The Austrians and Germans adopted them for use in the 30 year war where they were called Zischägge. Then the Dutch and the English (Civil War) adopted them. It can therefore be difficult to assign them to any particular geographic area when they are of a generic shape without identifying maker or arsenal marks.

The fact that the skull piece is rounded, relatively shallow, and consists of two halves riveted together, suggests that it’s a British helmet rather than continental European or E.European. But it’s difficult to tell with such a generic shape. There were heavier sappers’s versions as well which were probably more munitions quality.

There seems to be some shiny remains of gilding at the seam on the back of the helmet? Also, in terms of general interest I think the Prussian pickelhaube developed out of the zischägge.

fernando · 30th July 2018, 01:03 PM

Victrix, may i suggest that you send those rather elucidative pictures to Cathey by PM.

.

Victrix · 30th July 2018, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Victrix, may i suggest that you send those rather elucidative pictures to Cathey by PM.

.

Done! Cathey you have PMs.

Cathey · 31st July 2018, 09:40 AM

Hi Guys

The straps inside are leather which I thought odd given the tail is not articulated. However the pictures Vitrex sent me have the same straps inside as this one and the overall helmets appear to be an identical in design.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

kronckew · 31st July 2018, 10:35 AM

Ah, not stiffners then. Could they be for attaching a padded lining? Ear flaps were I gather, frequently padded along with the suspension/padding for the main part of the head.

fernando · 31st July 2018, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

... Could they be for attaching a padded lining? Ear flaps were I gather, frequently padded along with the suspension/padding for the main part of the head.

Well, at a certain stage in one of these helmets description in the Web, it reads:
"... and the neck guard is stamped from a single piece of metal to simulate an articulated version. The edges, retaining rivets, were originally used to secure the lining... "
So ...

fernando · 30th July 2018, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Stiffeners?

So they surely are, Wayne.

30th July 2018, 12:08 PM	#2
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 755	These lobster tail helmets were used over a very wide geographical area at a time of intense armament and conflict. They were derived from the Ottoman cicek helmets which were adopted by the lighter Hungarian (medieval territory encompassing a number of nationalities in those days) hussar cavalry. They were then adopted by the Poles (as seen in their famous heavy winged hussar cavalry). The Austrians and Germans adopted them for use in the 30 year war where they were called Zischägge. Then the Dutch and the English (Civil War) adopted them. It can therefore be difficult to assign them to any particular geographic area when they are of a generic shape without identifying maker or arsenal marks. The fact that the skull piece is rounded, relatively shallow, and consists of two halves riveted together, suggests that it’s a British helmet rather than continental European or E.European. But it’s difficult to tell with such a generic shape. There were heavier sappers’s versions as well which were probably more munitions quality. There seems to be some shiny remains of gilding at the seam on the back of the helmet? Also, in terms of general interest I think the Prussian pickelhaube developed out of the zischägge. Last edited by fernando; 30th July 2018 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Links to active auction sites not allowed

31st July 2018, 09:40 AM	#5
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	The straps inside! Hi Guys The straps inside are leather which I thought odd given the tail is not articulated. However the pictures Vitrex sent me have the same straps inside as this one and the overall helmets appear to be an identical in design. Cheers Cathey and Rex

30th July 2018, 01:03 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Victrix, may i suggest that you send those rather elucidative pictures to Cathey by PM. .

31st July 2018, 10:35 AM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	Ah, not stiffners then. Could they be for attaching a padded lining? Ear flaps were I gather, frequently padded along with the suspension/padding for the main part of the head.