2018 ethnographic weapon

thomas hauschild · 29th July 2018, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I love this!

I love your use of mokume copper as well and the way you etched it to give that worn feel on the scabbard. Also I like the scalloping of the end of the blade. The hammered and patina'd copper nails/rivets are a nice touch.

Thank you very much.

At the end there is not a nail. Its the tang going thru the grip full lenght. The tang is not hardened at the end to rivet it with a ball-hammer the old way.

Thank you all

Best Thomas

midelburgo · 29th July 2018, 08:33 PM

What is the (supposed) intended use of this blade?

The form shall come after the function... Without knowing that is not possible to regard its success.

thomas hauschild · 29th July 2018, 09:37 PM

What is the supposed use a that piece? A good question. Well my experience with a piece of this size is....one. ( making one of the „forged in fire“ test with a half pig would be interesting lol)

You can found a big number of different pieces that we call today ethnographical. Do we have the knowledge of the purpose of every different design ? On a modern knifeshow you will find so many different designs of the theme blade + grip as you will find on ethnographic pieces during the centuries before.

My personal intention was to learn, try out different techniques and answer myself to the question „can I do it ?“ that was all. I‘m fascinated of the old techniques, the imagination of how they made the pieces and just want to do some of this with my own hands. And at the end there was a contest namend „machete“ at the knifeshow in solingen this year. But that was only the occasion to start. I wanted to do a piece like this since years. The next piece of that size will be different. Never thought how much work this was and I have used some modern equipment like a belt grinder.

Thank you

Thomas

A. G. Maisey · 29th July 2018, 11:26 PM

Thomas, I also have spent a lengthy part of my life involved in knifemaking, principally in making blades for other makers, but I have also made complete knives, and my work always tended towards an ethno-historical theme.

I have one question:- you have stated your respect for the techniques, and I assume, technology of makers of the past, do you , yourself, use these same techniques and technology in your work?

thomas hauschild · 30th July 2018, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thomas, I also have spent a lengthy part of my life involved in knifemaking, principally in making blades for other makers, but I have also made complete knives, and my work always tended towards an ethno-historical theme.

I have one question:- you have stated your respect for the techniques, and I assume, technology of makers of the past, do you , yourself, use these same techniques and technology in your work?

It‘s often difficult, because you often only see the result without the knowledge how it‘s done. You can read hundreds of hours books from scientist and the (often opposite ) opinions how it was done. Damascus patterns are one of this. It‘s just interesting for me to repeat a pattern. Is this exactly science what I want to do ? No. I will use borax instead quartz sand for the welding and a gasforge instead of charcoal. That doesn#t matter to me. If the result at the end will look like on the old one it will be ok for me. I have a bucket full of magnetit sand in my workshop. I wanted to make some iron out it. I will build an oven and if the result will be „iron“ that will be ok for me. I do not need to reproduce a similar oven with all detail measurements found in a specific region of the country. I will use an electric blower for that. The main issue for me is simple craftmenship , thats all

Best Thomas

A. G. Maisey · 30th July 2018, 10:38 AM

Thank you for outlining your point of view Thomas.

In respect of forge work, I have always found that the use of coke and charcoal is far more satisfying than the use of a gas forge. Welding in a gas forge is not difficult, welding in coke or charcoal is a whole other world, and by using coke or charcoal, we position ourselves very close to the smiths of the past, even if we do use electric blowers.

I have used bellows instead of an electric blower, and what I found was that the fire (it was teak charcoal) was much more easily controlled with the bellows than with the electric blower. I've used a farriers hand-blown forge also, WWI vintage, and although for a number of reasons I find it fairly difficult to use, it also gives very good fire control.

I learnt to weld when the only fuel available to the smith I learnt from was coal, this meant that I needed to coke the coal before I could consider welding. Although I have found river sand to be a good flux for iron or mild steel, I have not found it satisfactory for welds involving high carbon steel, in a coke fire anhydrous borax is a satisfactory flux, but often no flux at all is necessary, especially in a teak charcoal fire. Use of a flux is very often the base cause of weld flaw.

I do appreciate your response to my question, Thomas, and I thank you for it, but the main thrust of my curiosity was not so much the forge work, which really is pretty simple and straight forward once the basics are understood, but rather, your approach to the bench work. I am curious to know if you use similar tools and techniques to the blade smiths of olden times for the actual making of the blade, rather than the making of the forging from which the blade will emerge.

David · 30th July 2018, 01:18 PM

Hi Thomas. Firstly let me say that is is a beautiful weapon that you have created. You should be proud of your accomplishment. I think we could call it many things. Well designed. Nicely crafted. Beautiful to look at. In hand we might be able to add more observations on functionality and design. But i am afraid that the one thing, by its very definition, that we cannot call it is an ethnographic weapon.
As fun as this is to see my personal feeling is that it is just not what we do here on these forums. We are not a knife maker's forum. There are in fact many of those out there on the internet as i am sure you know. I also know that we have a fair number of aspiring smiths in our membership. My fear is that a thread like this opens the door for a flood of knife making threads that seems a bit of a distraction from the intended focus of this site. I would suggest that unless Lee is prepared to open up a new sub-group called Newly Made Fantasy Blades Based Upon Ethnographic Designs that we might be better off leaving such discussions for other venues.
But these are just my personal opinions, not a moderation decree. If the mods here on the Ethno Forum wish to continue this discussion so be it.

thomas hauschild · 30th July 2018, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thank you for outlining your point of view Thomas.

In respect of forge work, I have always found that the use of coke and charcoal is far more satisfying than the use of a gas forge. Welding in a gas forge is not difficult, welding in coke or charcoal is a whole other world, and by using coke or charcoal, we position ourselves very close to the smiths of the past, even if we do use electric blowers.

I have used bellows instead of an electric blower, and what I found was that the fire (it was teak charcoal) was much more easily controlled with the bellows than with the electric blower. I've used a farriers hand-blown forge also, WWI vintage, and although for a number of reasons I find it fairly difficult to use, it also gives very good fire control.

I learnt to weld when the only fuel available to the smith I learnt from was coal, this meant that I needed to coke the coal before I could consider welding. Although I have found river sand to be a good flux for iron or mild steel, I have not found it satisfactory for welds involving high carbon steel, in a coke fire anhydrous borax is a satisfactory flux, but often no flux at all is necessary, especially in a teak charcoal fire. Use of a flux is very often the base cause of weld flaw.

I do appreciate your response to my question, Thomas, and I thank you for it, but the main thrust of my curiosity was not so much the forge work, which really is pretty simple and straight forward once the basics are understood, but rather, your approach to the bench work. I am curious to know if you use similar tools and techniques to the blade smiths of olden times for the actual making of the blade, rather than the making of the forging from which the blade will emerge.

A.G.

Yes I agree absolutly to 100 % . This is the way that I realy like to go ( in the future) Life is a compromise. The normal business as a production manager need more than 50 h a week, the neighboors say nothing when I will grind and forge on saturday( but they will not like the smoke of a coal fire ) Here in this area there are a lot of friends making iron in the 100 % traditional way. The Solingen museum is nearby and I have to less time to take part of all these kind of actions. Maybe in a decade when retirement comes by. At the moment I‘m happy with any piece that I finish and that piece above needed some month to finish. There were a lot things going to my mind while taking antique pieces in my hand and trying to do something like this ( unable to make it at the end ) I just want to share my grown respect for the former craftmen.

Best Thomas

29th July 2018, 08:33 PM	#2
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 266	What is the (supposed) intended use of this blade? The form shall come after the function... Without knowing that is not possible to regard its success.

29th July 2018, 09:37 PM	#3
thomas hauschild Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Germany Posts: 144	What is the supposed use a that piece? A good question. Well my experience with a piece of this size is....one. ( making one of the „forged in fire“ test with a half pig would be interesting lol) You can found a big number of different pieces that we call today ethnographical. Do we have the knowledge of the purpose of every different design ? On a modern knifeshow you will find so many different designs of the theme blade + grip as you will find on ethnographic pieces during the centuries before. My personal intention was to learn, try out different techniques and answer myself to the question „can I do it ?“ that was all. I‘m fascinated of the old techniques, the imagination of how they made the pieces and just want to do some of this with my own hands. And at the end there was a contest namend „machete“ at the knifeshow in solingen this year. But that was only the occasion to start. I wanted to do a piece like this since years. The next piece of that size will be different. Never thought how much work this was and I have used some modern equipment like a belt grinder. Thank you Thomas

29th July 2018, 11:26 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Thomas, I also have spent a lengthy part of my life involved in knifemaking, principally in making blades for other makers, but I have also made complete knives, and my work always tended towards an ethno-historical theme. I have one question:- you have stated your respect for the techniques, and I assume, technology of makers of the past, do you , yourself, use these same techniques and technology in your work?

30th July 2018, 10:38 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Thank you for outlining your point of view Thomas. In respect of forge work, I have always found that the use of coke and charcoal is far more satisfying than the use of a gas forge. Welding in a gas forge is not difficult, welding in coke or charcoal is a whole other world, and by using coke or charcoal, we position ourselves very close to the smiths of the past, even if we do use electric blowers. I have used bellows instead of an electric blower, and what I found was that the fire (it was teak charcoal) was much more easily controlled with the bellows than with the electric blower. I've used a farriers hand-blown forge also, WWI vintage, and although for a number of reasons I find it fairly difficult to use, it also gives very good fire control. I learnt to weld when the only fuel available to the smith I learnt from was coal, this meant that I needed to coke the coal before I could consider welding. Although I have found river sand to be a good flux for iron or mild steel, I have not found it satisfactory for welds involving high carbon steel, in a coke fire anhydrous borax is a satisfactory flux, but often no flux at all is necessary, especially in a teak charcoal fire. Use of a flux is very often the base cause of weld flaw. I do appreciate your response to my question, Thomas, and I thank you for it, but the main thrust of my curiosity was not so much the forge work, which really is pretty simple and straight forward once the basics are understood, but rather, your approach to the bench work. I am curious to know if you use similar tools and techniques to the blade smiths of olden times for the actual making of the blade, rather than the making of the forging from which the blade will emerge.

30th July 2018, 01:18 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,237	Hi Thomas. Firstly let me say that is is a beautiful weapon that you have created. You should be proud of your accomplishment. I think we could call it many things. Well designed. Nicely crafted. Beautiful to look at. In hand we might be able to add more observations on functionality and design. But i am afraid that the one thing, by its very definition, that we cannot call it is an ethnographic weapon. As fun as this is to see my personal feeling is that it is just not what we do here on these forums. We are not a knife maker's forum. There are in fact many of those out there on the internet as i am sure you know. I also know that we have a fair number of aspiring smiths in our membership. My fear is that a thread like this opens the door for a flood of knife making threads that seems a bit of a distraction from the intended focus of this site. I would suggest that unless Lee is prepared to open up a new sub-group called Newly Made Fantasy Blades Based Upon Ethnographic Designs that we might be better off leaving such discussions for other venues. But these are just my personal opinions, not a moderation decree. If the mods here on the Ethno Forum wish to continue this discussion so be it.