Landean Pralamba Collection (part of)

A. G. Maisey · 21st May 2018, 04:03 AM

Thank you for posting these images Amuk, very interesting.

You advise that the names you have used for the scabbards are in a language other than BI or Javanese, that the names you have used are not mainstream names.

May I ask the place and time when the names that you use for the scabbards would be recognised by a person who was keris literate?

Thank you.

Paul de Souza · 21st May 2018, 04:21 AM

Just curious. But isn't the spelling Amuk is using Dutch?

"Tjawsteung" = Coteng

"Tandjoeng" = Tajong

I have a relative whose father hails from Bangka Island, under Dutch control in the 30s, has the surname Tjang but the rest of the cousins born in Singapore, under the British, have the surname Chang.

Amuk is not usisg the spelling of Bahasa Indonesia or Malaysia.

Are u from Holland Amuk?

A. G. Maisey · 21st May 2018, 09:14 AM

Paul in 1972 Indonesia changed the spelling of words from the Dutch system to the English system. Javanese and other local language spellings followed suit. So pre-1972 it was Dutch convention, post 1972 it was English convention

As far as names go, some people have stayed with the old Dutch spellings, others have changed to new spelling.

In the list below, the first column is post 1972 usage, the second column is pre-1972 usage

u = oe
c = tj
j = dj
kh = ch
ny = nj
sy = sj
y = j

This only refers to spelling, pronunciation is consistent no matter what spelling is used, and of course, pronunciation must be learnt separately.

BI is the national and public language, everybody uses a local language at home and mostly in the street.

Correction

It has been rather forcefully pointed out to me that in the case of the letter "u" replacing the Dutch usage of "oe", this change dates from 1947.

Apparently the new regime in the new country of Indonesia had such a deep seated hatred of the previous Dutch overlords that one of their first actions was to get rid of this "oe" usage, something that they found extremely offensive, and in addition, out of step with the Modern World.

21st May 2018, 09:14 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Paul in 1972 Indonesia changed the spelling of words from the Dutch system to the English system. Javanese and other local language spellings followed suit. So pre-1972 it was Dutch convention, post 1972 it was English convention As far as names go, some people have stayed with the old Dutch spellings, others have changed to new spelling. In the list below, the first column is post 1972 usage, the second column is pre-1972 usage u = oe c = tj j = dj kh = ch ny = nj sy = sj y = j This only refers to spelling, pronunciation is consistent no matter what spelling is used, and of course, pronunciation must be learnt separately. BI is the national and public language, everybody uses a local language at home and mostly in the street. Correction It has been rather forcefully pointed out to me that in the case of the letter "u" replacing the Dutch usage of "oe", this change dates from 1947. Apparently the new regime in the new country of Indonesia had such a deep seated hatred of the previous Dutch overlords that one of their first actions was to get rid of this "oe" usage, something that they found extremely offensive, and in addition, out of step with the Modern World. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 21st May 2018 at 10:36 PM.

21st May 2018, 04:03 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Thank you for posting these images Amuk, very interesting. You advise that the names you have used for the scabbards are in a language other than BI or Javanese, that the names you have used are not mainstream names. May I ask the place and time when the names that you use for the scabbards would be recognised by a person who was keris literate? Thank you.

21st May 2018, 04:21 AM	#2
Paul de Souza Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 66	Just curious. But isn't the spelling Amuk is using Dutch? "Tjawsteung" = Coteng "Tandjoeng" = Tajong I have a relative whose father hails from Bangka Island, under Dutch control in the 30s, has the surname Tjang but the rest of the cousins born in Singapore, under the British, have the surname Chang. Amuk is not usisg the spelling of Bahasa Indonesia or Malaysia. Are u from Holland Amuk?