Figurative Hilt ID

Rick · 3rd May 2018, 04:05 AM

I have to wonder if it would actually be used within the culture it originates from.
Would it not be considered as a bit over the top?

David · 3rd May 2018, 04:38 AM

I don't know Rick. I don't think anyone has actually determines what culture it originates from so i don't know how to answer your question. If indeed it represents a Hindu concept than could it have originated in one of the Balinese enclaves in Madura? If it is a Hindu representation it doesn't seem over the top to me at all.

No one has commented on the material yet. What do you think, bone or antler?

Rick · 3rd May 2018, 05:53 AM

I'll guess bone David. At the bottom of the handle is a ring which I think covers the marrow area.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd May 2018, 06:15 AM

Looks like bone to me.

My guess is Madura, Sumenep work, and 1980's --- but if you say you got it previous to this David, well, just take it back to where you think reasonable.

It would perhaps sit best on something East Jawa/North Coast/Madura.

Yes, certainly Jentayu is Hindu, but the East Jawa/Madura carvers draw on all societies, cultures, periods for inspiration.

Gustav · 3rd May 2018, 10:24 AM

For me, it's interesting to see the engraved "cracks", which imitate older ivory.
A good lesson.

Rick · 3rd May 2018, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

For me, it's interesting to see the engraved "cracks", which imitate older ivory.
A good lesson.

Yes it would from about ten feet away, or to the novice collector.

As Gilbert and Sullivan wrote in Trial By Jury:

"She may very well pass for forty-three
In the dusk, with a light behind her."

Gustav · 3rd May 2018, 03:46 PM

Exactly - imagine you are in a dark shop room, and it's covered with "patina"...
And you don't see the Pesi hole, because it's fitted with a Keris.

David · 3rd May 2018, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Looks like bone to me.

My guess is Madura, Sumenep work, and 1980's --- but if you say you got it previous to this David, well, just take it back to where you think reasonable.

It would perhaps sit best on something East Jawa/North Coast/Madura.

Yes, certainly Jentayu is Hindu, but the East Jawa/Madura carvers draw on all societies, cultures, periods for inspiration.

Thanks Alan. No, i didn't acquire this until sometime around 2000. I had jus assumed it was from the 60s or 70s based upon the color and patina, but both those things can be faked to a certain extent, so your 80s attribution might well be correct.

3rd May 2018, 04:05 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	I have to wonder if it would actually be used within the culture it originates from. Would it not be considered as a bit over the top?

3rd May 2018, 04:38 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	I don't know Rick. I don't think anyone has actually determines what culture it originates from so i don't know how to answer your question. If indeed it represents a Hindu concept than could it have originated in one of the Balinese enclaves in Madura? If it is a Hindu representation it doesn't seem over the top to me at all. No one has commented on the material yet. What do you think, bone or antler?

3rd May 2018, 05:53 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	I'll guess bone David. At the bottom of the handle is a ring which I think covers the marrow area.

3rd May 2018, 06:15 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Looks like bone to me. My guess is Madura, Sumenep work, and 1980's --- but if you say you got it previous to this David, well, just take it back to where you think reasonable. It would perhaps sit best on something East Jawa/North Coast/Madura. Yes, certainly Jentayu is Hindu, but the East Jawa/Madura carvers draw on all societies, cultures, periods for inspiration.

3rd May 2018, 10:24 AM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	For me, it's interesting to see the engraved "cracks", which imitate older ivory. A good lesson.

3rd May 2018, 03:46 PM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Exactly - imagine you are in a dark shop room, and it's covered with "patina"... And you don't see the Pesi hole, because it's fitted with a Keris.