Is this a common Arab Saif ?

Tatyana Dianova · 23rd March 2018, 09:51 AM

Fernando: it is not a common Arabian Saif, but one of the best Saifs I have ever seen! A great sword, congratulations!
I would like to add my humble example to the thread since this thread shows many reference examples. What makes it specially interesting is a blade with yelman.
You may try for "unpolishing" a very fine sandpaper with 2000 grit or a 0000 steel wool.

fernando · 23rd March 2018, 01:22 PM

Thank you for your kind words and the pictures of your excelent example, Tatiana.
Thank you also for the unpolishing suggestions.
Martin's idea for wet/oiled pumice powder would be a different method.
Eventually my local silver smith also suggests steel wool or, as alternative, a (dishwashing) green scourer pad.
In any case, i am not yet ready for such adventure and for the meantime, will leave it as it is.

.

Kubur · 23rd March 2018, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

In any case, i am not yet ready for such adventure and for the meantime, will leave it as it is.
.

Yes i think you should let it as it is.
IMHO!!!

Lee · 23rd March 2018, 02:44 PM

From the photo above it is also obvious that the Royal Armouries wisely chose to leave the high polish on their example alone.

fernando · 23rd March 2018, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

From the photo above it is also obvious that the Royal Armouries wisely chose to leave the high polish on their example alone.

Wise words Lee ... and a perfect solution

.

Richard G · 23rd March 2018, 09:02 PM

I have seen a few of these. A polished or burnished blade is not uncommon, and for that matter common to many Arab swords. I think it is most probably how the original owners would have wanted it, so beyond cleaning, I would leave it as it is.
Best wishes
Richard

fernando · 24th March 2018, 10:08 AM

That is a settled matter Richard

.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 14th April 2019, 12:22 PM

This is a Nimcha~ The question is where is it from.. ? Firstly it is not a Maghreb style nor is it a Zanzibari . Buttin I believe places this in the correct category and I have seen variants similar from Yemen and Saudia...The design appears to be Hindi but that does not mean absolutely from Hyderabad but it could be because of the trade links and Yemeni Mercenaries working there. It could have been made by an Indian craftsman living in Yemen...But I doubt that as well and return to Hyderabad since it would have been full of such craftsmen thus Hyderabad gets my vote.

I think a look at the Buttin Chart plate XXX below will show just how close that author was in his deliberations on these weapons. Personally I have a great difficulty putting the whole story together on what went where ...and how if at all the Moroccan is related to the Arabian? . For certain there are a whole lot of variants and how much is influenced from India or Yemen or Saudia is the puzzle we are trying to solve.

For Zanzibar the question is ...were any swords made there for which I have my doubts?..and suggest that swords were all imported in and from the countries trading in the Hub. Buttin lived most of his life in Morocco and would certainly have noted any relationship with Zanzibari weapons but he never did... In fact the three plates are entirely separate. 1009 and those straight guards flanking it probably sets out the variant we are looking at.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=buttin shows other similar forms and below what looks more like a Yemeni style although very similar ..Thus I think it would be a spllt decision to exactly place the pin point origin.. Yemeni/Saudia ?

As for the cut out Knock under the pommel my view has always been that this was the pivotal point with which the little finger was able to swivel and twist the hilt giving it a very flexible feel in combat mode..

ariel · 15th April 2019, 07:04 PM

Arabs very often used high-mirror polish. I have a couple of those, with pretty worn handles, but with blades one could use as a shaving mirror.
Take it to a local jeweler with a good machine: they can detect chrome or nickel in 5 seconds flat.
If it is in the original Arab polish, I would try to preserve it as is: oil only.

Excellent find!!!

David R · 2nd March 2020, 09:35 PM

Irrelevant post.

RAMBA · 2nd March 2020, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

From the photo above it is also obvious that the Royal Armouries wisely chose to leave the high polish on their example alone.

"Unpolish" at one's peril. I would not touch it.

Kubur · 23rd March 2018, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

I would like to add my humble example to the thread since this thread shows many reference examples. What makes it specially interesting is a blade with yelman.

Your sword is very interesting, a combinaison of Yemeni and Zanzibari swords...
With an imported Indian / Afghan blade (these blades have a yelman).

Martin Lubojacky · 23rd March 2018, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

Fernando: it is not a common Arabian Saif, but one of the best Saifs I have ever seen! A great sword, congratulations!
I would like to add my humble example to the thread since this thread shows many reference examples. What makes it specially interesting is a blade with yelman.
You may try for "unpolishing" a very fine sandpaper with 2000 grit or a 0000 steel wool.

Hi Tatyana,
Dissadvantage of the fine sandpaper (e.g. 2000) is, that when/if its surface is choked - you are starting to polish (instead of unpolish). On the other side - if the paper is new, you risk scratches (even in the case of 2000 grit) visible from certain angles. That´s why the fine pumice stone powder on the wet/oily and soft mussy textile should be (only my opinion) more regardful and should give steadier result... I think

23rd March 2018, 09:51 AM	#1
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	Fernando: it is not a common Arabian Saif, but one of the best Saifs I have ever seen! A great sword, congratulations! I would like to add my humble example to the thread since this thread shows many reference examples. What makes it specially interesting is a blade with yelman. You may try for "unpolishing" a very fine sandpaper with 2000 grit or a 0000 steel wool. Attached Images

14th April 2019, 12:22 PM	#8
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	This is a Nimcha~ The question is where is it from.. ? Firstly it is not a Maghreb style nor is it a Zanzibari . Buttin I believe places this in the correct category and I have seen variants similar from Yemen and Saudia...The design appears to be Hindi but that does not mean absolutely from Hyderabad but it could be because of the trade links and Yemeni Mercenaries working there. It could have been made by an Indian craftsman living in Yemen...But I doubt that as well and return to Hyderabad since it would have been full of such craftsmen thus Hyderabad gets my vote. I think a look at the Buttin Chart plate XXX below will show just how close that author was in his deliberations on these weapons. Personally I have a great difficulty putting the whole story together on what went where ...and how if at all the Moroccan is related to the Arabian? . For certain there are a whole lot of variants and how much is influenced from India or Yemen or Saudia is the puzzle we are trying to solve. For Zanzibar the question is ...were any swords made there for which I have my doubts?..and suggest that swords were all imported in and from the countries trading in the Hub. Buttin lived most of his life in Morocco and would certainly have noted any relationship with Zanzibari weapons but he never did... In fact the three plates are entirely separate. 1009 and those straight guards flanking it probably sets out the variant we are looking at. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=buttin shows other similar forms and below what looks more like a Yemeni style although very similar ..Thus I think it would be a spllt decision to exactly place the pin point origin.. Yemeni/Saudia ? As for the cut out Knock under the pommel my view has always been that this was the pivotal point with which the little finger was able to swivel and twist the hilt giving it a very flexible feel in combat mode.. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 14th April 2019 at 01:03 PM.

23rd March 2018, 01:22 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you for your kind words and the pictures of your excelent example, Tatiana. Thank you also for the unpolishing suggestions. Martin's idea for wet/oiled pumice powder would be a different method. Eventually my local silver smith also suggests steel wool or, as alternative, a (dishwashing) green scourer pad. In any case, i am not yet ready for such adventure and for the meantime, will leave it as it is. .

23rd March 2018, 02:44 PM	#4
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 937	From the photo above it is also obvious that the Royal Armouries wisely chose to leave the high polish on their example alone.

23rd March 2018, 09:02 PM	#6
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 411	I have seen a few of these. A polished or burnished blade is not uncommon, and for that matter common to many Arab swords. I think it is most probably how the original owners would have wanted it, so beyond cleaning, I would leave it as it is. Best wishes Richard

24th March 2018, 10:08 AM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	That is a settled matter Richard .

15th April 2019, 07:04 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Arabs very often used high-mirror polish. I have a couple of those, with pretty worn handles, but with blades one could use as a shaving mirror. Take it to a local jeweler with a good machine: they can detect chrome or nickel in 5 seconds flat. If it is in the original Arab polish, I would try to preserve it as is: oil only. Excellent find!!!

2nd March 2020, 09:35 PM	#10
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,120	Irrelevant post.