Is this a common Arab Saif ?

TVV · 21st March 2018, 07:01 PM

Based on existing photographic evidence, I think it is fairly safe to attribute these swords to Southern Yemen. As for where the scabbards were manufactured, I will defer this to other form members - we have experts in Indian arms and their decorative art. As you point out, there were certainly enough highly skilled silversmiths in Yemen during the 19th century, who produced beautiful jambiya scabbards and various jewelry, and who certainly had the ability to produced sword scabbards as well.

Interestingly enough, Elgood does not mention much about the blades and their origin. They are invariably slightly curved, with a single fuller and relatively short. Unlike Maghrebi or Zanzibari/Omani nimcha hilted swords, which have a wide variety of blade shapes and lengths, these seem to follow a pattern.

fernando · 21st March 2018, 07:38 PM

Thank you for the excelent points, Teodor

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Kubur · 21st March 2018, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Based on existing photographic evidence, I think it is fairly safe to attribute these swords to Southern Yemen. As for where the scabbards were manufactured, I will defer this to other form members - we have experts in Indian arms and their decorative art. As you point out, there were certainly enough highly skilled silversmiths in Yemen during the 19th century, who produced beautiful jambiya scabbards and various jewelry, and who certainly had the ability to produced sword scabbards as well.

Pffff I feel better now

Fernando scabbard has some similarities with other Yemeni scabbards.
And if you look closer you'll see a consistency between hilts and scabbards...

Kubur · 21st March 2018, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Interestingly enough, Elgood does not mention much about the blades and their origin. They are invariably slightly curved, with a single fuller and relatively short. Unlike Maghrebi or Zanzibari/Omani nimcha hilted swords, which have a wide variety of blade shapes and lengths, these seem to follow a pattern.

Should I comment this blade?

A last point I think that Fernando blade is chromed not polished, but i don't see any problem with that.

TVV · 21st March 2018, 08:42 PM

We probably should, starting with the question - do you think the blade is original to the mounts? We know there were a lot of Ethiopian swords imported in Yemen for the rhino horn hilts, with the blades then mounted with a variety of hilts and re-sold.

Kubur · 21st March 2018, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

We probably should, starting with the question - do you think the blade is original to the mounts? We know there were a lot of Ethiopian swords imported in Yemen for the rhino horn hilts, with the blades then mounted with a variety of hilts and re-sold.

That's the whole point Theodor, an Ethiopian blade on a Yemeni Sword...
I'm very happy with that...

Martin Lubojacky · 22nd March 2018, 09:39 AM

I think you have bought extra-piece of its kind Fernando. Congratulations.
I hope I may add picture of the similar sword I bought years ago from Artzi, to your thread. I think my blade was made in Arab country - there is some mark like "V" on it. Unfortunately I have only old photos on flash disc with me (on the top of it in a group with another sabres, - I can make another pictures/closeups - but in July earliest).
I think your blade is not chromed. Could possibly be nickeled. (But maybe also only highly polished.)

fernando · 22nd March 2018, 06:13 PM

I am extremely pleased i was not counting with such contribution from all of you Gentlemen.
May i add that:
I understand when Kubur says that there is a consistency between (the decoration of) hilts and scabbards.
And may i say that, definitely the blade is not chromed or nickled, but highly polished. I take it that my jeweler friend and the silver smith we went to straighten up the hilt langet would have noticed that. The first confirmed this morning that the blade is polished and the second has discussed with me the methods to "unpolish" it ...not to "unchrome" it.

.

22nd March 2018, 09:39 AM	#7
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 844	I think you have bought extra-piece of its kind Fernando. Congratulations. I hope I may add picture of the similar sword I bought years ago from Artzi, to your thread. I think my blade was made in Arab country - there is some mark like "V" on it. Unfortunately I have only old photos on flash disc with me (on the top of it in a group with another sabres, - I can make another pictures/closeups - but in July earliest). I think your blade is not chromed. Could possibly be nickeled. (But maybe also only highly polished.) Attached Images

22nd March 2018, 06:13 PM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I am extremely pleased i was not counting with such contribution from all of you Gentlemen. May i add that: I understand when Kubur says that there is a consistency between (the decoration of) hilts and scabbards. And may i say that, definitely the blade is not chromed or nickled, but highly polished. I take it that my jeweler friend and the silver smith we went to straighten up the hilt langet would have noticed that. The first confirmed this morning that the blade is polished and the second has discussed with me the methods to "unpolish" it ...not to "unchrome" it. . Attached Images

21st March 2018, 07:01 PM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,666	Based on existing photographic evidence, I think it is fairly safe to attribute these swords to Southern Yemen. As for where the scabbards were manufactured, I will defer this to other form members - we have experts in Indian arms and their decorative art. As you point out, there were certainly enough highly skilled silversmiths in Yemen during the 19th century, who produced beautiful jambiya scabbards and various jewelry, and who certainly had the ability to produced sword scabbards as well. Interestingly enough, Elgood does not mention much about the blades and their origin. They are invariably slightly curved, with a single fuller and relatively short. Unlike Maghrebi or Zanzibari/Omani nimcha hilted swords, which have a wide variety of blade shapes and lengths, these seem to follow a pattern.

21st March 2018, 07:38 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you for the excelent points, Teodor .

21st March 2018, 08:42 PM	#5
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,666	We probably should, starting with the question - do you think the blade is original to the mounts? We know there were a lot of Ethiopian swords imported in Yemen for the rhino horn hilts, with the blades then mounted with a variety of hilts and re-sold.