Another Afghan Jezail?

Victrix · 20th January 2018, 08:50 PM

Many thanks for your comments, Pukka Bundook and Rick.

The maker of this rifle knew what he was doing. The absence of decorations indicates a military purpose. Despite this, it has an aestetic appeal which is further enhanced by the patina.

I’m more of a sword than gun collector, but think this rifle deserves to be kept. I probably had it now for closer to 30 years than the 20 previously stated. Will probably look to mount it on the wall.

Someone told me muskets are smooth bored and can’t have rifled barrels, so I guess this one is properly called a rifle. It’s octagonal in shape, and not hexagonal as stated on the original shop ticker. One strange thing is that it doesn’t have attachements for a sling to hang over the shoulder. Maybe it would have been carried in a holster or something else instead.

rickystl · 21st January 2018, 03:53 PM

Hi Victrix

"Generally" the term rifle is used to describe a shoulder gun with a rifled barrel.
And barrels with smooth bores are often referred to as muskets, or long guns. Of course the term long gun could be used to describe any type of shoulder gun. The terms are sometimes used interchangeably.

That your's lacks any sling swivals is not that unusual. Many of these Jazails were made without trigger guards. The quality of barrels, locks, and decoration (if any) varied greatly as can be seen from surviving specimens. Often these guns utilized a minimum of parts just assembled or cobbled together to make something that would shoot. While others had more attention to their build quality.
Your's appears to be built as a simple, solid "work" rifle that's definately seen plenty of action, but not abused. I notice the forged ramrod with the somewhat squared/flattened end with a slot for a cleaning patch. Looks very sturdy like the rest of the gun. Often these ramrods are missing.
So yes, this should make a nice, authentic display with your collection.

Rick

Kubur · 21st January 2018, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victrix

Many thanks for your comments, Pukka Bundook and Rick.
Someone told me muskets are smooth bored and can’t have rifled barrels, so I guess this one is properly called a rifle.

It's true, but in fact a musket is an old matchlock or wheelock long gun.
The musketeers are originally soldiers with these long guns.
Later they became famous with another kind of weapon... the rapier...
Some people call a musket any rifle before the 19th c. percussion lock...

BANDOOK · 22nd January 2018, 10:39 PM

Hi Victrix
Am posting my Jezail which has similar butt like your Rifle, but mine is made for non military use and has mother of pearl decoration on the butt and behind lock
Regards Rajesh

Victrix · 23rd January 2018, 09:03 AM

Hi Rajesh,

Thanks for posting pics of your Jezail. It’s a flintlock is it not? The butt is similar shape as you note. I plan to attach my Jezail to the wall in a similar way.

I had the idea that my Jezail could have been ordered locally in India/Pakistan/Afghanistan by a British Army officer stationed there and brought home to England with him? Windsor Caste is within walking distance of Eton and there are troops stationed there. That could explain the solid look of functionality and lack of decorations, i.e. more in Northern European taste?

Regards,

Pukka Bundook · 23rd January 2018, 01:25 PM

Victrix,

Rather than ordered by an officer, many were simply picked up after campaigns and brought back as keepsakes.
England seemed to be half full of ethnic stuff when I was a boy!
Vast amounts came home with returning soldiers.

Fernando K · 23rd January 2018, 02:47 PM

Hello

Just to say that the lock is not a regulatory lock, the word TOWER and the date, 1870 do not correspond to any regulatory weapon, and has been set for propaganda. The same for the royal crown. that has no figure of the ruling monarch. The same happened in many copies of the Enfield, produced by English and Belgian gunsmiths, to be sold, for example, to both contenders in the American War of Secession, and then sold to the South American countries in the Paraguay War.

Affectionately. Fernando K

Victrix · 23rd January 2018, 10:12 PM

Many thanks, Fernando. Nice to get some facts in after all the speculations!

BANDOOK · 25th January 2018, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victrix

Hi Rajesh,

Thanks for posting pics of your Jezail. It’s a flintlock is it not? The butt is similar shape as you note. I plan to attach my Jezail to the wall in a similar way.

I had the idea that my Jezail could have been ordered locally in India/Pakistan/Afghanistan by a British Army officer stationed there and brought home to England with him? Windsor Caste is within walking distance of Eton and there are troops stationed there. That could explain the solid look of functionality and lack of decorations, i.e. more in Northern European taste?

Regards,

Hi Victrix
I bought my jezail for England,Regards Rajesh

kahnjar1 · 25th January 2018, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

Hi Victrix
I bought my jezail for England,Regards Rajesh

Hi Victrix,
To answer the question that you posed to Bandook....yes his is a flintlock, but with the top jaw missing from the cock.
Rick mentions above that these were often made without trigger guards. Here are a couple of pics of one I have made without a guard.
Stu

Victrix · 25th January 2018, 05:59 PM

Hi Stu,

Nice one! I prefer flintlocks before percussion myself. In terms of collectible items at least

.

What confuses me somewhat is that I feel my Jezail looks quite European apart from the butt. Yours look quite oriental just about everywhere. It could be that with the flintlocks your Jezails might be older and have more native appearance because foreign influences were yet to make inroads. Or as I suggested before, a local gunsmith might have customized my Jezail for a British Army client on order? If he wanted to take one back home to England with him he might have asked them to leave the traditional decorations off?

22nd January 2018, 10:39 PM	#4
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 627	Hi Victrix Am posting my Jezail which has similar butt like your Rifle, but mine is made for non military use and has mother of pearl decoration on the butt and behind lock Regards Rajesh Attached Images

23rd January 2018, 09:03 AM	#5
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 755	Hi Rajesh, Thanks for posting pics of your Jezail. It’s a flintlock is it not? The butt is similar shape as you note. I plan to attach my Jezail to the wall in a similar way. I had the idea that my Jezail could have been ordered locally in India/Pakistan/Afghanistan by a British Army officer stationed there and brought home to England with him? Windsor Caste is within walking distance of Eton and there are troops stationed there. That could explain the solid look of functionality and lack of decorations, i.e. more in Northern European taste? Regards, Last edited by Victrix; 23rd January 2018 at 09:45 AM.

20th January 2018, 08:50 PM	#1
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 755	Many thanks for your comments, Pukka Bundook and Rick. The maker of this rifle knew what he was doing. The absence of decorations indicates a military purpose. Despite this, it has an aestetic appeal which is further enhanced by the patina. I’m more of a sword than gun collector, but think this rifle deserves to be kept. I probably had it now for closer to 30 years than the 20 previously stated. Will probably look to mount it on the wall. Someone told me muskets are smooth bored and can’t have rifled barrels, so I guess this one is properly called a rifle. It’s octagonal in shape, and not hexagonal as stated on the original shop ticker. One strange thing is that it doesn’t have attachements for a sling to hang over the shoulder. Maybe it would have been carried in a holster or something else instead.

21st January 2018, 03:53 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	Hi Victrix "Generally" the term rifle is used to describe a shoulder gun with a rifled barrel. And barrels with smooth bores are often referred to as muskets, or long guns. Of course the term long gun could be used to describe any type of shoulder gun. The terms are sometimes used interchangeably. That your's lacks any sling swivals is not that unusual. Many of these Jazails were made without trigger guards. The quality of barrels, locks, and decoration (if any) varied greatly as can be seen from surviving specimens. Often these guns utilized a minimum of parts just assembled or cobbled together to make something that would shoot. While others had more attention to their build quality. Your's appears to be built as a simple, solid "work" rifle that's definately seen plenty of action, but not abused. I notice the forged ramrod with the somewhat squared/flattened end with a slot for a cleaning patch. Looks very sturdy like the rest of the gun. Often these ramrods are missing. So yes, this should make a nice, authentic display with your collection. Rick

23rd January 2018, 01:25 PM	#6
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Victrix, Rather than ordered by an officer, many were simply picked up after campaigns and brought back as keepsakes. England seemed to be half full of ethnic stuff when I was a boy! Vast amounts came home with returning soldiers.

23rd January 2018, 02:47 PM	#7
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hello Just to say that the lock is not a regulatory lock, the word TOWER and the date, 1870 do not correspond to any regulatory weapon, and has been set for propaganda. The same for the royal crown. that has no figure of the ruling monarch. The same happened in many copies of the Enfield, produced by English and Belgian gunsmiths, to be sold, for example, to both contenders in the American War of Secession, and then sold to the South American countries in the Paraguay War. Affectionately. Fernando K

23rd January 2018, 10:12 PM	#8
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 755	Many thanks, Fernando. Nice to get some facts in after all the speculations!

25th January 2018, 05:59 PM	#11
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 755	Hi Stu, Nice one! I prefer flintlocks before percussion myself. In terms of collectible items at least . What confuses me somewhat is that I feel my Jezail looks quite European apart from the butt. Yours look quite oriental just about everywhere. It could be that with the flintlocks your Jezails might be older and have more native appearance because foreign influences were yet to make inroads. Or as I suggested before, a local gunsmith might have customized my Jezail for a British Army client on order? If he wanted to take one back home to England with him he might have asked them to leave the traditional decorations off?