Folding Guard or Attack Hilt Sword

fernando · 26th December 2017, 07:00 PM

Hello Cathey. I notice that you haven't given us any feedback on comments posted so far; were they useful ?

Les-M · 26th December 2017, 11:05 PM

Hi Guys

My apologies for not getting back to you sooner, but I don't spend as much time on the forums as I should. Rex generally looks ever day (being retired) unlike me who is still working full time to pay for swords. Thank you so much for the information it is certainly extremely helpful.

Cheers Cathey

Cathey · 27th December 2017, 12:47 AM

Hi Guys

My apologies for not getting back to this post. Yes the information is definitely helpful and much appreciated. I have been experiencing difficulties posting replies, so today I am trying another browser.

Cheers Cathey

fernando · 27th December 2017, 11:22 AM

Cathey · 28th December 2017, 05:34 AM

Hi Fernando

I think I know where my posts have been going. I set up an account for a friend who struggles with computers and it looks like I have accidentally replied under his name, that will confuse people.

Anyway back to the Folding Guard. Your reference to its French name SABRE A GARDE TOURNANTE is most helpful and has provided a number of excellent examples. I was wondering if Sim Comfort is correct when he suggest that that the original attack hilt (Folding Guard) design originated from a Parisian sword maker named Coullier in the 1780s. I haven't been able to find out anything about Coullier so it is difficult to know how Sim has come up with this view.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

fernando · 29th December 2017, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathey

... I think I know where my posts have been going. I set up an account for a friend who struggles with computers and it looks like I have accidentally replied under his name, that will confuse people...

I thought something like that has occurred and deleted all double posts in the cutlass thread. I only left above post #6 in this thread as it contains an unrepeated paragraph referring your options on what concerns affording swords

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathey

... I was wondering if Sim Comfort is correct when he suggest that that the original attack hilt (Folding Guard) design originated from a Parisian sword maker named Coullier in the 1780s. I haven't been able to find out anything about Coullier so it is difficult to know how Sim has come up with this view.

Well, there is no smoke without fire ... but it is indeed hard to find references on Coullier. He did certainly exist as a 'fourbisseur' (french for sword smith). I have read of him HERE but i spotted no trace of his possible (probable) garde tournante invention. Madnumforce is visibly well documented on French armoury; maybe he could come up with some data...

.

Madnumforce · 29th December 2017, 04:10 PM

I'm not much versed into specific manufacturers, but after a brief search on Google, Coullier, successeur de Monsieur Pichon à Paris, doesn't seems to have any connection with sabers at all, only relatively classy smallswords, that's why he bothers mentioning on the blade he's the swordsmith of the count of Artois. The sabres à garde tournante are about as opposite as one can get to the type of smallsword he (and his workshop) was making.

an exemple of a Coullier smallsword on an auction website
another exemple from the Wallace Collection

I don't see how one could positively conclude that this fourbisseur created the garde tournante. I'd be rather curious to know how Mr. Comfort came to that conclusion.

Cathey · 30th December 2017, 01:13 AM

Hi Guys

The exact extract from Sim Comfort's book is "So where does this attack hilt come from? It appears that the original attack hilt design originated from a Parisian sword maker named Coullier in the 1780s. In 1791 a special military guard was established for the king and another special guard for the protection of the Assemblee Nationale. This type of movable guard hilt was used for the swords for these two special guards. As this particular sword bears the inscription 'LA PATRIE LA LOI LE ROI', it seems most likely that it formed part of the king's guard and, who knows, it may well have been recycled and, like Captain L'Heritier's attack hilt fighting sword, found its way to sea."

It looks like the only option remaining is to Contact Sim and ask him what he has based his view of the origin of the Attack Hilt on. I think I still have his email address somewhere from previous correspondence so I will drop him a line and let you know if he responds.

In the meantime does anyone out there have a view as to when and where these odd hilts first surfaced and who invented them?

Cheers Cathey and Rex

26th December 2017, 11:05 PM	#2
Les-M Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 3	Folding Guard Sword Hi Guys My apologies for not getting back to you sooner, but I don't spend as much time on the forums as I should. Rex generally looks ever day (being retired) unlike me who is still working full time to pay for swords. Thank you so much for the information it is certainly extremely helpful. Cheers Cathey

27th December 2017, 12:47 AM	#3
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Folding Guard Swords Hi Guys My apologies for not getting back to this post. Yes the information is definitely helpful and much appreciated. I have been experiencing difficulties posting replies, so today I am trying another browser. Cheers Cathey

28th December 2017, 05:34 AM	#5
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Folding Hilt Hi Fernando I think I know where my posts have been going. I set up an account for a friend who struggles with computers and it looks like I have accidentally replied under his name, that will confuse people. Anyway back to the Folding Guard. Your reference to its French name SABRE A GARDE TOURNANTE is most helpful and has provided a number of excellent examples. I was wondering if Sim Comfort is correct when he suggest that that the original attack hilt (Folding Guard) design originated from a Parisian sword maker named Coullier in the 1780s. I haven't been able to find out anything about Coullier so it is difficult to know how Sim has come up with this view. Cheers Cathey and Rex

30th December 2017, 01:13 AM	#8
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Origin of the Folding Guard Hi Guys The exact extract from Sim Comfort's book is "So where does this attack hilt come from? It appears that the original attack hilt design originated from a Parisian sword maker named Coullier in the 1780s. In 1791 a special military guard was established for the king and another special guard for the protection of the Assemblee Nationale. This type of movable guard hilt was used for the swords for these two special guards. As this particular sword bears the inscription 'LA PATRIE LA LOI LE ROI', it seems most likely that it formed part of the king's guard and, who knows, it may well have been recycled and, like Captain L'Heritier's attack hilt fighting sword, found its way to sea." It looks like the only option remaining is to Contact Sim and ask him what he has based his view of the origin of the Attack Hilt on. I think I still have his email address somewhere from previous correspondence so I will drop him a line and let you know if he responds. In the meantime does anyone out there have a view as to when and where these odd hilts first surfaced and who invented them? Cheers Cathey and Rex

26th December 2017, 07:00 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hello Cathey. I notice that you haven't given us any feedback on comments posted so far; were they useful ?

27th December 2017, 11:22 AM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694

29th December 2017, 04:10 PM	#7
Madnumforce Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 28	I'm not much versed into specific manufacturers, but after a brief search on Google, Coullier, successeur de Monsieur Pichon à Paris, doesn't seems to have any connection with sabers at all, only relatively classy smallswords, that's why he bothers mentioning on the blade he's the swordsmith of the count of Artois. The sabres à garde tournante are about as opposite as one can get to the type of smallsword he (and his workshop) was making. an exemple of a Coullier smallsword on an auction website another exemple from the Wallace Collection I don't see how one could positively conclude that this fourbisseur created the garde tournante. I'd be rather curious to know how Mr. Comfort came to that conclusion.