Boar sword cross bar

[fernando]

Would you know how old ?

[Foxbat]

16th century.

[kronckew]

see this for some info: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ossbar&f=false

[Foxbat]

The link, unfortunately, is not working for me.

[M ELEY]

Did you mean to say 'boar spear'? I have never heard of a boar sword (not being sarcastic here!). I'll have to look it up-

[Foxbat]

Boar swords were quite common in the 16th and early 17th centuries in Europe. Unlike the boar spears they sported sword hilts, usually in the typical for that period styles, like this one.

The term is less popular, but if you do a search on it, you will find them. Here, for instance:

http://karabela-arms.com/index.php?r...product_id=114

Often simply called Hunting Swords.

Here's the typical example of that class of weapons.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

The link, unfortunately, is not working for me.

I've seen a modern recreation of the boar sword sketched above by an experimental historian. Apparently the cross piece was made to be removable, possibly screwing together, rectangular on the main piece to fit the slot and prevent rotation, but drilled & tapped for a mating screw on the opposing arm. Each had a shoulder behind the bit that went through the slot to hold it from both sides. Unfortunately there was no pic of it unattached to the blade.

Screen dump: for those of us without the whole book and a picture of the crossbar on the original museum piece at
https://guywindsor.net/blog/2016/10/...swords-me-too/

[fernando]

In any case, it appears rather difficult to spot one of these swords complete with their cross bar, worse a technical description of these devices, even worse that there is more that one system; although certainly not the 'horn' like version, in the discussed case. Cross bars or 'travincas' (as we call them here) made of wood and bone were materials already used in prior hunting spears (ascumas), in a manner that they were firmly binded to shafts, as scabbards didn't take place to conflict with. It seems more consistent that steel (iron) was a material that prevailed in hunting swords when cross bars started their appearance in the XVI century. We can see that when Emperor Maximilian in 1526 ordered a set of miniature paintings, only one of the five huntsmen had a cross bar fitted in his sword.
Foxbat's splendid example has some similarities, at least in what concerns the orifice for the cross bar, with those in Wallace Colection (plate 115); the author assuming how the (missing) cross bar was usually secured; somehow consistent with the right hand sketch in the above linked work.


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[Foxbat]

Thank you so much! The idea of tapping the parts was one of the first, that crossed my mind, but I put it on hold due to the fact, that I wasn't sure how common the screw threads were back in early 16th century.

I really wish people at Met would let me handle theirs.

I have seen the picture in Fernando's post, one appears to have the spring on top, that latches the bar in, the spring idea is also on the table at this time.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Thank you so much! The idea of tapping the parts was one of the first, that crossed my mind, but I put it on hold due to the fact, that I wasn't sure how common the screw threads were back in early 16th century.

I really wish people at Met would let me handle theirs.

I have seen the picture in Fernando's post, one appears to have the spring on top, that latches the bar in, the spring idea is also on the table at this time.

screws and pin fastenings were known and laboriously hand filed, as were small intricate gears in pre-christian greece/rome. common metal screws were 16c, contemporary with the sword. many wheel lock firearms used them, and accurate screw cutting lathes were invented late 18c.

there's a lot of ancient technology that was lost and we are still rediscovering it. like roman concrete used to build the coliseum and the pantheon, which sets underwater and gets stronger with age, not weaker like our 'modern' version. our's barely lasts a couple decades. the unreinforced dome of the pantheon in rome has lasted for almost 2000 years, having only needed some minor repairs in 200a.d. after a quake. we only recently found clay and bimetallic batteries we think were used in pre-christian turkey to electroplate stuff. and so it continues... the 'ancients' were just as smart and crafty as we are. and a lot more brutal.

you could always try the royal armoury at leeds, uk. they may have one they could photograph for you if you ask them nicely.

the facebook page of their affiliated association is at https://www.facebook.com/groups/498926490154772/

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by kronckew

see this for some info: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ossbar&f=false

Came home and found that book on my shelf... but it doesn't show much, unfortunately. A couple of pictures of cross bard, not clear how exactly made.