Questions on 2 Javanese blades

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

This is what Jean meant when he said that the quality of the kerises was not high enough to permit giving a tangguh. In the classical sense Jean was absolutely correct. But in the modern sense I'd say that most current generation collectors would throw their hat into the ring and give an opinion for one tangguh or another. In fact, that is the meaning of the word "tangguh" = "opinion".

Thanks Alan. I realize that Green did inquire about tangguh, so this information will hopefully be useful to him. However, what both myself and Detlef were commenting on was Jean describing this 9 luk blade as "crudely" made. Indeed this keris is no masterpiece and probably technically not worthy of assigning tangguh by more conservative methods, but i don't believe we are looking at a crudely made blade here, just one that has had perhaps more than its share of acid washings. And from what i understand from this conversation on pamors it would seem that the presence of a complex pamor miring as well as what appears to be multiple pamor forms it seems that this was more likely a keris created for someone of means who i can only assume would not have accepted a "crudely" forged keris for the extra money spent.

[A. G. Maisey]

David, I do not want to get into the "crude"/"not crude" discussion, from my perspective this keris is simply too much eroded to judge what its quality might have been like when it was new. However, we rarely find an expensive pamor motif on a blade that lacks some degree of expertise in its manufacture.