Kemardikan Madurese keris with 4 kembang kacang

Rick · 2nd December 2017, 03:41 AM

Not meant to offend, but for me:

The wilah reminds me of a Pizza with too many toppings; there's no harmony expressed in the wilah; it's like keris science fiction.

The carving of the dress is better than the last example of Madura style carving you submitted.

I find the keris jarring; but maybe it is purely an art piece.

To each his own

alexish · 2nd December 2017, 04:22 AM

I appreciate your comments. I understand that this keris is based on another older kemardikan example. I enclose a picture. I am wondering whether another collector has encountered another example of this particular Keris Dhapur before?

A. G. Maisey · 2nd December 2017, 07:22 AM

These extreme Kemardikan blades are not really the sort of thing that I find attractive, but there is no denying that in Alexish's example,the metal carving is very skilled, as is the wood carving.

Present day Javanese society and culture accepts this type of blade as legitimate art, so I guess we just need to try to adopt the same sort of mind set that we might use when we view any modern art. My overall artistic tastes seem to have not progressed much beyond the mid-19th century, and for me, its the same with keris art:- I like traditional, I do not like modern. But that does not mean that I am unable to appreciate the thought and the work that has gone into a piece of modern art.

In about 1982 I attended a showing of keris that had been made by the new keris makers from the ASKI (Akademi Seni Karawitan Indonesia) in Solo, Jawa Tengah. I was with Panembahan Harjonegoro ( he was not a Panembahan yet), Bp. Pauzan Pusposukado (Alm.) and Bp. Yohannes Yantono ( who was one of the ASKI people).In about 1982 the Javanese keris revival was still very young, the idea of Kamardikan keris being legitimate keris art did not yet exist. In fact, the classification of "Kemardikan Keris" did not yet exist.

The ASKI boys had placed on exhibition a number of keris that deviated from the accepted dhapurs. I recall Panembahan Harjonegoro's comment very clearly:-

"Well, yes, certainly this is art. But are they keris?"

That pretty much sums up my attitude too.

But to be objective, it all depends upon how we consider the keris:- if we use the traditional standards and link those standards to the artistic and cultural iconography, then of course these extreme Kamardikan keris are not in any way able to be accepted as true keris.

However, if we simplify things and accept the Extreme Kemardikan keris as art that is based upon the form of the keris, it becomes no different to appraising any art form. We use the overall standards for art appraisal, rather than the overall standards for keris appraisal.

Using those art appraisal standards, I feel that Alexish's keris must be accepted as a very competent example of the Javanese plastic arts.

Jean · 2nd December 2017, 08:54 AM

I am in full agreement with Alan's opinion and also much prefer traditional art to modern one and this includes the keris especially....

May be because I am part of "orang tangguh tua"?
Regards

alexish · 2nd December 2017, 11:47 AM

Dear fellow collectors,

All your comments are really appreciated.

Note that although the wilah is kelengan, forge lines are still visible, as shown in the attached picture.

David · 2nd December 2017, 07:15 PM

I also agree with Alan that as part of modern keris art this is an aspect of keris culture that we simply need to accept, even if many of us do not enjoy it. I would never personally consider collecting a keris like this, but to each their own. Just as i can walk into the Museum of Modern Art in NYC and find countless paintings and sculptures that i find hideous in appearance and execution that are still being accepted by the art world as worthy of display.
This particular work bothers me even further since it is mixing elements of more than one keris culture, including unduk-unduk (seahorse) figures that AFAIK are only to be found on certain Peninsula keris. So the whole thing is a bit of a fantasy piece to my eye and nothing that would likely ever be seen as a serious keris by either a Madurese or Malaysian. But it is nicely crafted for sure. As an art piece it seems that many of these young keris makers have it in their heads that they must re-invent the wheel and that some more is better. I will maintain the old adage that LESS is actually more in these cases. Not my cuppa tea for sure.

drdavid · 2nd December 2017, 10:51 PM

Hi Alexish
this appears very skilfully made, both the blade and the dress. Can you tell us more about the piece, was it made for a competition, was it commissioned, or was it perhaps purely to see if it could be done. Did the maker have a reason for leaving the forge lines visible, why did they chose to integrate 4 kembang kacang.
cheers
Drd

2nd December 2017, 03:41 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	You Asked Not meant to offend, but for me: The wilah reminds me of a Pizza with too many toppings; there's no harmony expressed in the wilah; it's like keris science fiction. The carving of the dress is better than the last example of Madura style carving you submitted. I find the keris jarring; but maybe it is purely an art piece. To each his own

2nd December 2017, 04:22 AM	#2
alexish Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 127	I appreciate your comments. I understand that this keris is based on another older kemardikan example. I enclose a picture. I am wondering whether another collector has encountered another example of this particular Keris Dhapur before? Attached Images

2nd December 2017, 11:47 AM	#5
alexish Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 127	Forge lines on wilah Dear fellow collectors, All your comments are really appreciated. Note that although the wilah is kelengan, forge lines are still visible, as shown in the attached picture. Attached Images

2nd December 2017, 07:22 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,059	These extreme Kemardikan blades are not really the sort of thing that I find attractive, but there is no denying that in Alexish's example,the metal carving is very skilled, as is the wood carving. Present day Javanese society and culture accepts this type of blade as legitimate art, so I guess we just need to try to adopt the same sort of mind set that we might use when we view any modern art. My overall artistic tastes seem to have not progressed much beyond the mid-19th century, and for me, its the same with keris art:- I like traditional, I do not like modern. But that does not mean that I am unable to appreciate the thought and the work that has gone into a piece of modern art. In about 1982 I attended a showing of keris that had been made by the new keris makers from the ASKI (Akademi Seni Karawitan Indonesia) in Solo, Jawa Tengah. I was with Panembahan Harjonegoro ( he was not a Panembahan yet), Bp. Pauzan Pusposukado (Alm.) and Bp. Yohannes Yantono ( who was one of the ASKI people).In about 1982 the Javanese keris revival was still very young, the idea of Kamardikan keris being legitimate keris art did not yet exist. In fact, the classification of "Kemardikan Keris" did not yet exist. The ASKI boys had placed on exhibition a number of keris that deviated from the accepted dhapurs. I recall Panembahan Harjonegoro's comment very clearly:- "Well, yes, certainly this is art. But are they keris?" That pretty much sums up my attitude too. But to be objective, it all depends upon how we consider the keris:- if we use the traditional standards and link those standards to the artistic and cultural iconography, then of course these extreme Kamardikan keris are not in any way able to be accepted as true keris. However, if we simplify things and accept the Extreme Kemardikan keris as art that is based upon the form of the keris, it becomes no different to appraising any art form. We use the overall standards for art appraisal, rather than the overall standards for keris appraisal. Using those art appraisal standards, I feel that Alexish's keris must be accepted as a very competent example of the Javanese plastic arts.

2nd December 2017, 08:54 AM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I am in full agreement with Alan's opinion and also much prefer traditional art to modern one and this includes the keris especially.... May be because I am part of "orang tangguh tua"? Regards

2nd December 2017, 07:15 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,239	I also agree with Alan that as part of modern keris art this is an aspect of keris culture that we simply need to accept, even if many of us do not enjoy it. I would never personally consider collecting a keris like this, but to each their own. Just as i can walk into the Museum of Modern Art in NYC and find countless paintings and sculptures that i find hideous in appearance and execution that are still being accepted by the art world as worthy of display. This particular work bothers me even further since it is mixing elements of more than one keris culture, including unduk-unduk (seahorse) figures that AFAIK are only to be found on certain Peninsula keris. So the whole thing is a bit of a fantasy piece to my eye and nothing that would likely ever be seen as a serious keris by either a Madurese or Malaysian. But it is nicely crafted for sure. As an art piece it seems that many of these young keris makers have it in their heads that they must re-invent the wheel and that some more is better. I will maintain the old adage that LESS is actually more in these cases. Not my cuppa tea for sure.

2nd December 2017, 10:51 PM	#7
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 372	Hi Alexish this appears very skilfully made, both the blade and the dress. Can you tell us more about the piece, was it made for a competition, was it commissioned, or was it perhaps purely to see if it could be done. Did the maker have a reason for leaving the forge lines visible, why did they chose to integrate 4 kembang kacang. cheers Drd