Keris Selit

Jean · 15th November 2017, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Example 4. Comments welcomed on the 4. Thanks!

Hello Rick,
N° 1 is Minang for sure (not selit), and N° 3 & 4 look Sumatrese, see another small specimen of unclear origin but probably Sumatra also.
Regards

David · 15th November 2017, 02:14 PM

Thanks for adding Rick. I believe you example #2 might qualify as a keris selit. As Jean points out, perhaps not the others. There are small keris that serve different functions in various keris bearing cultures, but not all are selit.
Can you give us some blade lengths on these?

rasdan · 15th November 2017, 06:14 PM

Hello everybody,

IMHO it is probably a personal preference - at least during the turn of the century. [[The process described by Jean using salt, sulphur and rice water is used to etch the blade, not stain; but if I'm not mistaken if we drop the salt it will stain. ]] <Edit: The bold part is wrong. Pls refer to post #30 for correction.

To my knowledge the word warangan was already used in Hikayat Abdullah written in early 19th century.

Below is a quote from Winstedt's Malayan Memories 1916. It is part of a dialogue of a Malay keris dealer with Winstedt:

"" So," he said, picking up bundle and cane, " so, I may
leave this dagger with the tuan. And the tuan has got me
that pink arsenic which keeps a blade bright : I want it for
my creese with the damask marks which the knowing call
' the grass-hopper's legs.' "

We can read it here:

https://archive.org/details/cu31924021572106

I think I had read some other reference about Malays staining their keris using warangan in another text that I had forgotten about.

Also, the keris on the cover of this book appears to be stained.

A. G. Maisey · 15th November 2017, 11:01 PM

Thanks for that Gustav, I do have the Newbold book, I may well have read the sulphur + salt in that and forgotten the mention of warangan, or my source might have been different.

What I am positive of is that salt + sulphur + rice water, applied to a blade and wrapped in plastic for a week or so will stain a blade. I did several blades in this way +50 years ago, before I knew how to use arsenic. I did not wash off with coconut water, I washed off with pineapple juice.

I think I've still got one of the blades that I did like this, and I intend to sell it at some time in the future, ie, not now, not immediate future, but in some future transaction in the indefinite future, so I'm not infringing either Forum policy, or my own policies if I post a pic. I'll see if I can find the keris I have in mind.

rasdan · 16th November 2017, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

What I am positive of is that salt + sulphur + rice water, applied to a blade and wrapped in plastic for a week or so will stain a blade. I did several blades in this way +50 years ago, before I knew how to use arsenic. I did not wash off with coconut water, I washed off with pineapple juice.

Reading Alan's post made me realize I have made a mistake in my post above about the sulphur method. I got confused with an etching method I used to use. I will edit the previous post.

I have tried sulphur + salt + vinegar on keris blades before. This mix etches. I haven't tried sulphur + salt + rice water method. Since this method uses rice water instead of vinegar I think it wont etch or wont etch as strong and as Alan have said, will stain. So what I've written about just sulphur + rice water is wrong. Sorry I got things mixed up.

G'day Alan,

Regarding the outcome of the rice water method, does the iron get stained as dark as warangan with the technique?

A. G. Maisey · 16th November 2017, 10:22 AM

No Rasdan.

I'm going to post a pic of a blade I did about 55 years ago as soon as I can find it, you can judge for yourself.

Green · 16th November 2017, 02:52 PM

Not to belabour the point, but I need a little clarification about the 'warangan culture' for the malay area.

I believe the warangan process is done on javanese blades periodically whenever the blade is cleaned. But this is not so in the case of Malay blades... i.e it may be stained using sulphur etc during the initial making process, but subsequently cleaning is only done using lime juice etc without further staining using warangan.

Is my understanding correct? If this is so, this essentially mean that 'warangan' is not a part of malay keris culture as I understand it. Hence any blades that show obvious warangan is most likely not a malay blade. Hence my original point.

15th November 2017, 02:14 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,220	Thanks for adding Rick. I believe you example #2 might qualify as a keris selit. As Jean points out, perhaps not the others. There are small keris that serve different functions in various keris bearing cultures, but not all are selit. Can you give us some blade lengths on these?

15th November 2017, 06:14 PM	#3
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Hello everybody, IMHO it is probably a personal preference - at least during the turn of the century. [[The process described by Jean using salt, sulphur and rice water is used to etch the blade, not stain; but if I'm not mistaken if we drop the salt it will stain. ]] <Edit: The bold part is wrong. Pls refer to post #30 for correction. To my knowledge the word warangan was already used in Hikayat Abdullah written in early 19th century. Below is a quote from Winstedt's Malayan Memories 1916. It is part of a dialogue of a Malay keris dealer with Winstedt: "" So," he said, picking up bundle and cane, " so, I may leave this dagger with the tuan. And the tuan has got me that pink arsenic which keeps a blade bright : I want it for my creese with the damask marks which the knowing call ' the grass-hopper's legs.' " We can read it here: https://archive.org/details/cu31924021572106 I think I had read some other reference about Malays staining their keris using warangan in another text that I had forgotten about. Also, the keris on the cover of this book appears to be stained. Attached Images Last edited by rasdan; 16th November 2017 at 05:55 AM.

15th November 2017, 11:01 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Thanks for that Gustav, I do have the Newbold book, I may well have read the sulphur + salt in that and forgotten the mention of warangan, or my source might have been different. What I am positive of is that salt + sulphur + rice water, applied to a blade and wrapped in plastic for a week or so will stain a blade. I did several blades in this way +50 years ago, before I knew how to use arsenic. I did not wash off with coconut water, I washed off with pineapple juice. I think I've still got one of the blades that I did like this, and I intend to sell it at some time in the future, ie, not now, not immediate future, but in some future transaction in the indefinite future, so I'm not infringing either Forum policy, or my own policies if I post a pic. I'll see if I can find the keris I have in mind.

16th November 2017, 10:22 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	No Rasdan. I'm going to post a pic of a blade I did about 55 years ago as soon as I can find it, you can judge for yourself.

16th November 2017, 02:52 PM	#7
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 323	Not to belabour the point, but I need a little clarification about the 'warangan culture' for the malay area. I believe the warangan process is done on javanese blades periodically whenever the blade is cleaned. But this is not so in the case of Malay blades... i.e it may be stained using sulphur etc during the initial making process, but subsequently cleaning is only done using lime juice etc without further staining using warangan. Is my understanding correct? If this is so, this essentially mean that 'warangan' is not a part of malay keris culture as I understand it. Hence any blades that show obvious warangan is most likely not a malay blade. Hence my original point.