Blade identification needed on Moroccan nimcha sword.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Dear Kubur

the blade lenght is 69 cm and 3.3 cm W near the hilt.
best
Cerjak

Hi Jean Luc

It's what i was thinking, a real nimcha a short sword
total length should be around 80cm?

Are you sure that your nimcha is Moroccan?


Kubur

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Butins chart shows blades of varied lengths and for Nimcha used by cavalry in the Moroccan sense; they were long. The Pirate version for want of a better word were much shorter.
So far it has been difficult to see where in Morocco blades may have been produced except for daggers; Koummyya yes sword blades no. The majority are likely to be German in the trade blade mass export through North Africa and as already noted these were somewhat inferior qualities.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Jean Luc

It's what i was thinking, a real nimcha a short sword
total length should be around 80cm?

Are you sure that your nimcha is Moroccan?


Kubur

That is of course the dilemma, in the true sense of the term, 'nimcha' is said to refer to a 'small' or 'short' sword. I have forgotten the details of this translation in discussions a short while back though.
However, while that term was sort of indiscriminately used by collectors to refer to these Maghrebi sabres. The classification of their variations has been debated/discussed often on these pages.

It is often presumed that these sabres are Moroccan, though they were known through the Maghrebi littoral. The one Briggs (1965) had was Algerian, and he was based in those regions when he wrote.
Stone wrote (1934, p.469) on NIMCHA, "...a Arab sabre with a knuckle guard rectangular at the base with drooping quillons on the opposite side. It is ALSO used in Morocco."

The Arab classification denotes the much wider use of these. The curious note is that 'nimcha' denotes a short sword, yet many, if not most of these are mounted with full length blades, even broadsword blades. These are mostly, undeniably, German in most cases. Some are ANDREA FERARA, which as we know were Solingen products.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

There was a vibrant discussion at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17940 which looked at the crosses ..

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

That is of course the dilemma, in the true sense of the term, 'nimcha' is said to refer to a 'small' or 'short' sword. I have forgotten the details of this translation in discussions a short while back though.
However, while that term was sort of indiscriminately used by collectors to refer to these Maghrebi sabres. The classification of their variations has been debated/discussed often on these pages.
The Arab classification denotes the much wider use of these. The curious note is that 'nimcha' denotes a short sword, yet many, if not most of these are mounted with full length blades, even broadsword blades.

Hi,
Nimcha is exactly like Karud.
95% of the nimcha are not nimcha.

Nimcha is a short sword and this term was used for classification by collectors to define some Moroccan / Maghrebi swords.

The same problem was discussed on this forum with the Kaskara.
It's a collector name. In Sudan they call them sayf...

It's the reason why i was very annoyed with the karud discussion.
Because both Ariel and Eric were right.
Karud doesnt exist in local population.
But collectors use this term and its very practical.

In short, if you use karud, you can use nimcha or kaskara...
And Jean-Luc's sword is a real nimcha: Nimcha's look for collectors and Nimcha's name, short sword...

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi,
Nimcha is exactly like Karud.
95% of the nimcha are not nimcha.

Nimcha is a short sword and this term was used for classification by collectors to define some Moroccan / Maghrebi swords.

The same problem was discussed on this forum with the Kaskara.
It's a collector name. In Sudan they call them sayf...

It's the reason why i was very annoyed with the karud discussion.
Because both Ariel and Eric were right.
Karud doesnt exist in local population.
But collectors use this term and its very practical.

In short, if you use karud, you can use nimcha or kaskara...
And Jean-Luc's sword is a real nimcha: Nimcha's look for collectors and Nimcha's name, short sword...

Right, technically not 'nimcha' as I noted with the reference to the fact that most of these sabres in the Maghreb have full length single or double edged blades. The term 'nimcha' is used primarily by collectors, and much as in other Arab regions, the term sa'if suffices.
In Buttin (1933) these sabres are depicted in the plates identified only as Arab sa'if.

Like many other terms, writers have carried forth 'collectors' terms which are used to describe certain weapons in accord with the generally accepted terms shared semantically. As noted for example, the broadswords in the Sudan are not called 'kaskara' and the term is unknown to them. I spent nearly 10 years trying to find the origin of the term kaskara, and the many sources I reached honestly did not know. It was not until Iain came along some years ago, and found the source . Still, there the weapon is termed sa'if, in western literature, it is kaskara.

So in writing among our collectors circles, using whatever term is well known to refer to the weapon discussed is perfectly fine. Notations otherwise are considered perspective. Many become frustrated with 'the name game', but I think its often interesting.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It is indeed interesting~ Collectors coin certain words but locals look nonplussed when confronted by these concocted terms..Cutlass may not have been used until the admiralty had these weapons officially enter service and they may previously have been simply Swords Naval..The word Fuller wasnt used til about 1850 by blacksmiths but the word used was hollows. French words abound for sword parts Pas Dain...Foible...Forte. One could be driven completey potty trying to discover the origin of Kittarah!!