The EARLY MAKERS TRADE MARKS thread... lost and partly restored.

fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:57 PM

Old 23rd July 2016, 06:28 PM #280

Posted by:
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal

Was i so distant, Corrado ?

"The JHS or IHS monogram of the name of Jesus (or traditional Christogram symbol of western Christianity), derived from the first three letters of the Greek name of Jesus, Iota-Eta-Sigma (ΙΗΣΟΥΣ). Partly based on memories of church decorations. Has some degree of resemblance to a portion of the emblem of the Jesuits, due to common medieval influences (see Feast of the Holy Name of Jesus), but is not exactly the same, nor intended to be so."
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fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:59 PM

Old 24th July 2016, 06:52 AM #281

Posted by:
corrado26
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany

No, you have been quite near. I just wanted to show the origin of this abbriviation and it was not my intention to criticise.
corrado26
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fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:59 PM

Old 24th July 2016, 07:54 AM #282

Posted by:
kronckew
Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CSA Consulate,
Rm. 101, Glos. UK

further to that: it's one of the earliest christian decorations. , Ichthys was the offspring of the ancient sea goddess Atargatis, so was a perfect secret cover symbol.

from the writings of the immortal god of knowledge, wikipedia:

The ichthys or ichthus (/ˈɪkθəs, from the Greek ikhthýs (ἰχθύς, "fish"), is a symbol consisting of two intersecting arcs, the ends of the right side extending beyond the meeting point so as to resemble the profile of a fish. It was used by early Christians as a secret Christian symbol and now known colloquially as the "sign of the fish" or the "Jesus fish".

ΙΧΘΥΣ (Ichthus) is a backronym/acrostic for "Ίησοῦς Χριστός, Θεοῦ Υἱός, Σωτήρ", (Iēsous Christos, Theou Yios, Sōtēr), which translates into English as "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour".

Iota (i) is the first letter of Iēsous (Ἰησοῦς), Greek for "Jesus".
Chi (ch) is the first letter of Christos (Χριστός), Greek for "anointed".
Theta (th) is the first letter of Theou (Θεοῦ), Greek for "God's", the genitive case of Θεóς, Theos, Greek for "God".
Upsilon (y) is the first letter of (h)uios (Υἱός), Greek for "Son".
Sigma (s) is the first letter of sōtēr (Σωτήρ), Greek for "Savior".

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fernando · 19th October 2017, 04:00 PM

Old 24th July 2016, 10:37 AM #283

Posted by:
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 5,885

Originally Posted by corrado26
No, you have been quite near. I just wanted to show the origin of this abbriviation and it was not my intention to criticise.
corrado26 (Quote)

I took it like a correction, not a criticism ... and i saw nothing wrong with that .
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fernando · 19th October 2017, 04:00 PM

Old 27th July 2016, 12:01 AM #284

Posted by:
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman,
on the border with the UAE

ICHTHYOPHAGI...Means land of the fish eaters...and was applied by Ptolomy the great map maker at Alexandria..See the map below where it is inscribed across what is now The UAE, Mussandam and part of Oman.

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fernando · 19th October 2017, 04:00 PM

Old 27th July 2016, 07:51 AM #285

Posted by:
kronckew
Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CSA Consulate,
Rm. 101, Glos. UK

early version of "beware - beyond be monsters and the lands of the animal headed cannibals".

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fernando · 19th October 2017, 04:01 PM

Old 27th July 2016, 08:05 PM #286

Posred by:
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66

Corrado, thank you so much for the additional notes on the IHS symbol, and Fernando for your further explained observations on same.
It seems there are key dynamics associated with this three letter symbol, known as noted as the Christogram, which help us better understand its possible intention as used in marking weapons.
To add to Wayne's well detailed notes.

In early times, scribes often abbreviated Jesus' name with the two first letters of his name , or the first and last, with a line over the letters.
The Greek letters Chi (as with 'x') and Rho (as with P) abbreviated, were often used (Christ) as well.

Also, I (iota) and H (eta) first two letters for Jesus (early alphabets saw the I as J.

By the 2nd century, the S (sigma) was also added thus rendering IHS.

These Christograms were used as secret codes used on tombs, door posts etc. to designate one as Christian.

By the 15th century St. Bernadine of Sienna and his student St. John of Capistrano used the Christogram in preaching missions, and in Italy often used wood placards with surround of rays with IHS. The devout were encouraged to use this monogram in place of their own family crests etc. Pope Martin in 1427 asked for cross to be added.

However, by these times, the use and knowledge of Greek was in decline, and Latin predominated leading to the misperception that IHS represented
Iesus Hominum Salvator.
In the following years, this Christogram became added often into the motif on sword blades, known to used for example by Caino in Italy, and of course followed in suit by many others and across Europe,

Ibrahiim and Wayne, thank you for these keynote examples of the cartography of these times, which truly add perspective and better understanding of temporal attitudes and superstitions often held.
It is easy to understand how these kinds of religious and talismanic devices and symbols became legion on weaponry given the perils in warfare as well as perceived supernatural forces.
.

19th October 2017, 03:57 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Christogram Old 23rd July 2016, 06:28 PM #280 Posted by: fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Was i so distant, Corrado ? "The JHS or IHS monogram of the name of Jesus (or traditional Christogram symbol of western Christianity), derived from the first three letters of the Greek name of Jesus, Iota-Eta-Sigma (ΙΗΣΟΥΣ). Partly based on memories of church decorations. Has some degree of resemblance to a portion of the emblem of the Jesuits, due to common medieval influences (see Feast of the Holy Name of Jesus), but is not exactly the same, nor intended to be so." . (missing attachments) . Last edited by fernando; 21st October 2017 at 06:29 PM.

19th October 2017, 03:59 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 24th July 2016, 07:54 AM #282 Posted by: kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CSA Consulate, Rm. 101, Glos. UK further to that: it's one of the earliest christian decorations. , Ichthys was the offspring of the ancient sea goddess Atargatis, so was a perfect secret cover symbol. from the writings of the immortal god of knowledge, wikipedia: The ichthys or ichthus (/ˈɪkθəs, from the Greek ikhthýs (ἰχθύς, "fish"), is a symbol consisting of two intersecting arcs, the ends of the right side extending beyond the meeting point so as to resemble the profile of a fish. It was used by early Christians as a secret Christian symbol and now known colloquially as the "sign of the fish" or the "Jesus fish". ΙΧΘΥΣ (Ichthus) is a backronym/acrostic for "Ίησοῦς Χριστός, Θεοῦ Υἱός, Σωτήρ", (Iēsous Christos, Theou Yios, Sōtēr), which translates into English as "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour". Iota (i) is the first letter of Iēsous (Ἰησοῦς), Greek for "Jesus". Chi (ch) is the first letter of Christos (Χριστός), Greek for "anointed". Theta (th) is the first letter of Theou (Θεοῦ), Greek for "God's", the genitive case of Θεóς, Theos, Greek for "God". Upsilon (y) is the first letter of (h)uios (Υἱός), Greek for "Son". Sigma (s) is the first letter of sōtēr (Σωτήρ), Greek for "Savior". (missing attachments) . Last edited by fernando; 21st October 2017 at 06:30 PM.

19th October 2017, 04:00 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 24th July 2016, 10:37 AM #283 Posted by: fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 5,885 Originally Posted by corrado26 No, you have been quite near. I just wanted to show the origin of this abbriviation and it was not my intention to criticise. corrado26 (Quote) I took it like a correction, not a criticism ... and i saw nothing wrong with that . , Last edited by fernando; 21st October 2017 at 06:30 PM.

19th October 2017, 04:00 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 27th July 2016, 12:01 AM #284 Posted by: Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE ICHTHYOPHAGI...Means land of the fish eaters...and was applied by Ptolomy the great map maker at Alexandria..See the map below where it is inscribed across what is now The UAE, Mussandam and part of Oman. (missing attachments) . Last edited by fernando; 21st October 2017 at 06:31 PM.

19th October 2017, 04:00 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 27th July 2016, 07:51 AM #285 Posted by: kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CSA Consulate, Rm. 101, Glos. UK early version of "beware - beyond be monsters and the lands of the animal headed cannibals". (missing attachments) . Last edited by fernando; 21st October 2017 at 06:31 PM.

19th October 2017, 04:01 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 27th July 2016, 08:05 PM #286 Posred by: Jim McDougall EAA Research Consultant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Corrado, thank you so much for the additional notes on the IHS symbol, and Fernando for your further explained observations on same. It seems there are key dynamics associated with this three letter symbol, known as noted as the Christogram, which help us better understand its possible intention as used in marking weapons. To add to Wayne's well detailed notes. In early times, scribes often abbreviated Jesus' name with the two first letters of his name , or the first and last, with a line over the letters. The Greek letters Chi (as with 'x') and Rho (as with P) abbreviated, were often used (Christ) as well. Also, I (iota) and H (eta) first two letters for Jesus (early alphabets saw the I as J. By the 2nd century, the S (sigma) was also added thus rendering IHS. These Christograms were used as secret codes used on tombs, door posts etc. to designate one as Christian. By the 15th century St. Bernadine of Sienna and his student St. John of Capistrano used the Christogram in preaching missions, and in Italy often used wood placards with surround of rays with IHS. The devout were encouraged to use this monogram in place of their own family crests etc. Pope Martin in 1427 asked for cross to be added. However, by these times, the use and knowledge of Greek was in decline, and Latin predominated leading to the misperception that IHS represented Iesus Hominum Salvator. In the following years, this Christogram became added often into the motif on sword blades, known to used for example by Caino in Italy, and of course followed in suit by many others and across Europe, Ibrahiim and Wayne, thank you for these keynote examples of the cartography of these times, which truly add perspective and better understanding of temporal attitudes and superstitions often held. It is easy to understand how these kinds of religious and talismanic devices and symbols became legion on weaponry given the perils in warfare as well as perceived supernatural forces. . Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 04:52 PM.