Is This A Pala With An Indian Blade?

Jens Nordlunde · 14th October 2017, 03:56 PM

Did the blade you saw on the forum also have a katar stamped on the blade?
I once saw s tulwar on the forum with aa tulwar stamped onto the blade. The hilt was from Sind, but the blade could be from somewhere else.
In the western part of India(?), they swear an oath on the katar. Something along the line, should I be wrong, let the katar kill me. If the one who swor was wrong he does not kill himself, but make a scratch on the arm with the katar.
The blade looks as if it is very broad, do you think it is a tegha blade?

Kubur · 14th October 2017, 04:59 PM

Can you post close-ups of the hilt?
I would like to see if you have the original wrapping around the hilt.
And also show us the joint between the grips

Aslan Paladin · 14th October 2017, 08:30 PM

Images of the hilt and blade connection. The adhesive seems to be a blackish-brown resin of some sort.

Aslan Paladin · 14th October 2017, 08:37 PM

I can't remember if the blade I saw also had the katar mark. Since I didn't recognize it was a katar it didn't leave a lasting impression on me. I thought I saved the image but I can't find it in my laptop files. I'm still skimming through the past forum threads again to find it but I am sure it is here.

Aslan Paladin · 14th October 2017, 09:00 PM

The grip strap is plain brass with no decorative marks and the hilt is covered with a black velvet cloth secured by black string wound around numerous times in a random manner, leaving only the pommel exposed (although I did push the lower edge of the cloth back to expose a few millimeters of the body of the brass cross guard). Kubur unfortunately I don't have any other hilt wrapping which came with the sword. Jens that was also my initial thought, that the blade may have actually belonged to a tegha. But the width of the widest part of the blade (the yelman) is less than 2 inches wide, I don't know if that would qualify it as such. Maybe more of a tegha-like blade perhaps? Marius I agree with you and am open to the idea that it could have actually no Ottoman connection whatsoever since I haven't seen of any kilij with an Indian sword before and the hilt is sub par as compared to others. But on the other hand I am curious why should this apparently Indian blade be given a Turkish-style hilt by it's maker (why not a tulwar hilt which makes more sense IMHO). I don't know if it's a later marriage but as far as I can see the way the blade is secured to the hilt it does not show evidence of modern adhesive. I compared the adhesives used in the 3 Turkish-hilted swords I have and they all look the same to me. By the way when I received this sword the entire blade was covered in rust (same appearance as the remaining rust under the langets).

Aslan Paladin · 14th October 2017, 09:09 PM

I want to remove the velvet covering but I am discouraged by the thought of seeing what horror it is concealing underneath. I did take a peak underneath the edge covering the pommel and I saw part of the wooden grip just gone. So I could imagine large sections of the grip with gaps and probably the brass grip strap would have extensive losses as well. And I don't think there is anyone in town who can professionally restore the grip in case I decide to pursue that course anyway.

Jens Nordlunde · 14th October 2017, 09:28 PM

I dont know about the hilt, but there was in different parts of India a very big influence from Turky, Persia and Afghanistan.

Kubur · 14th October 2017, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aslan Paladin

I want to remove the velvet covering but I am discouraged by the thought of seeing what horror it is concealing underneath.(

Please don't remove this velvet, it's very are to have a hilt with the original wrapping!
To me it gives some value to your sword.
Here you have a wrapping around an Ottoman kilij...

14th October 2017, 08:30 PM	#3
Aslan Paladin Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand Posts: 122	Images of the hilt and blade connection. The adhesive seems to be a blackish-brown resin of some sort. Attached Images

14th October 2017, 09:00 PM	#5
Aslan Paladin Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand Posts: 122	The grip strap is plain brass with no decorative marks and the hilt is covered with a black velvet cloth secured by black string wound around numerous times in a random manner, leaving only the pommel exposed (although I did push the lower edge of the cloth back to expose a few millimeters of the body of the brass cross guard). Kubur unfortunately I don't have any other hilt wrapping which came with the sword. Jens that was also my initial thought, that the blade may have actually belonged to a tegha. But the width of the widest part of the blade (the yelman) is less than 2 inches wide, I don't know if that would qualify it as such. Maybe more of a tegha-like blade perhaps? Marius I agree with you and am open to the idea that it could have actually no Ottoman connection whatsoever since I haven't seen of any kilij with an Indian sword before and the hilt is sub par as compared to others. But on the other hand I am curious why should this apparently Indian blade be given a Turkish-style hilt by it's maker (why not a tulwar hilt which makes more sense IMHO). I don't know if it's a later marriage but as far as I can see the way the blade is secured to the hilt it does not show evidence of modern adhesive. I compared the adhesives used in the 3 Turkish-hilted swords I have and they all look the same to me. By the way when I received this sword the entire blade was covered in rust (same appearance as the remaining rust under the langets). Attached Images

14th October 2017, 09:09 PM	#6
Aslan Paladin Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand Posts: 122	I want to remove the velvet covering but I am discouraged by the thought of seeing what horror it is concealing underneath. I did take a peak underneath the edge covering the pommel and I saw part of the wooden grip just gone. So I could imagine large sections of the grip with gaps and probably the brass grip strap would have extensive losses as well. And I don't think there is anyone in town who can professionally restore the grip in case I decide to pursue that course anyway. Last edited by Aslan Paladin; 15th October 2017 at 09:44 AM.

14th October 2017, 03:56 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Did the blade you saw on the forum also have a katar stamped on the blade? I once saw s tulwar on the forum with aa tulwar stamped onto the blade. The hilt was from Sind, but the blade could be from somewhere else. In the western part of India(?), they swear an oath on the katar. Something along the line, should I be wrong, let the katar kill me. If the one who swor was wrong he does not kill himself, but make a scratch on the arm with the katar. The blade looks as if it is very broad, do you think it is a tegha blade?

14th October 2017, 04:59 PM	#2
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Can you post close-ups of the hilt? I would like to see if you have the original wrapping around the hilt. And also show us the joint between the grips

14th October 2017, 08:37 PM	#4
Aslan Paladin Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand Posts: 122	I can't remember if the blade I saw also had the katar mark. Since I didn't recognize it was a katar it didn't leave a lasting impression on me. I thought I saved the image but I can't find it in my laptop files. I'm still skimming through the past forum threads again to find it but I am sure it is here.

14th October 2017, 09:28 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I dont know about the hilt, but there was in different parts of India a very big influence from Turky, Persia and Afghanistan.