The Issue of Ivory

[A. G. Maisey]

David, as I was reading your thoughtful post, I thought to myself that rather than get involved in any sort of rambling discussion in respect of our, in some degree, opposing points of view, I would simply post a two word response:- Soylent Green.

You beat me to it.

However, I don't really think it will come to that.

Earth is a living entity:- she looks after herself.

Mankind has only been around for five minutes, but as a group we do have the benefits of logic and reason, something that similar viruses do not possess.

I believe that the passing of time will demonstrate that we are a self-limiting virus. In fact, most viruses are self limiting, in that they either kill the host, or they manage themselves in such a way that the host suffers a persistent, but not life threatening condition.

I rather feel that Mankind will prove to be a member of this second group of viruses, and will persist to use Earth in a way that ensures survival of both Earth and Mankind. But of course this will require vastly different attitudes to the ones that we currently espouse.

The principles that govern all in existence are at their foundations, engineering principles, they are governed by numbers.

The management of any system governed by numbers must employ numbers to ensure effective management of that system.

Earth is both a Living Entity and a System:- She has no tolerance of failure.

Now the question must arise:- do we manage Earth, or is Earth managing us? Perhaps what we are looking towards is a system of integrated management. We do have the tools of Logic and Reason that could accomplish this. However, one thing seems to be certain, for such a system to function, the element of Emotion must be removed from the equation. Emotion is really only a part of Chaos Theory, and as we all know, that depends upon the initial conditions. If we retain that initial condition of Emotion, which links us to the Animal World, then like other animals before us, Mankind will fail.

Our Saviour is Logic, Reason, and Mathematics, all applied by way of a System of Management.

Does Soylent Green have a place in such a system?

Perhaps, but there are other ways, better ways, and if Mankind begins to use a little bit more logic, and considerably less emotion there is a possibility we may be able have our elephants and eat them too:- genetic engineering > mature tuskers in 5 years > pen farmed elephants > ivory in every supermarket > elephant foot umbrella stands on every porch. No different really to the farming of genetically engineered sheep or cattle.

Some people might not like this approach, but as David has so logically demonstrated:- limit Mankind or lose everything --- including our sanity.

So where do we start?

But all this sort of discussion is decidedly Off Topic, so I stop here, except for one parting remark:-
if a smart man sees a steamroller coming down the road, he steps to one side.

[drac2k]

David, You have caught the fulcrum of my argument.The African and Asian law enforcement agencies have limited resources and thus often only offer token enforcement in endangered species protection; this infusion of money would greatly enhance attitudes and efforts.Yes the protection of these animals would seem to be a self-defeating effort as more and more protection would lead to less money, however, these games preserves once established could transition into more effective models and expand to accommodate tourists with cameras and not guns.It could offer jobs to the local inhabitants, some who poach because they have no other means of livelihood.
If that source of revenue isn't sufficient than how about this for another idea; worldwide all governments could offer a 12-month grace period on ivory, where anyone who brings a piece or pieces to the government agency can have that ivory registered with them and microchipped for a fee and afterward it would be legal.When the 12 month period ends all subsequent ivory can be handled in an appropriate way.These funds can be managed and doled out accordingly based on merit and need to the preserves.We would be talking about hundreds of millions of dollars.
In conclusion, let me state that maybe my ideas have flaws, but they are constructive ideas, which I hope beget other and better ideas because bemoaning the demise of noble beasts at the hands of man or crushing ivory just doesn't help.

[A. G. Maisey]

And you, drac, have endorsed my argument for management.

In this matter there is really only one way forward, and it is risk identification + risk control + management.

In essence this seemingly complicated problem is really a relatively simple management problem, all it requires is commitment and money to solve it.

Regrettably both these commodities always seem to be in short supply for anything that is deemed to be either politically unnecessary or commercially unprofitable.

[drac2k]

Wow; maybe world peace really is possible.

[A. G. Maisey]

Of course World Peace is possible --- just nuke everybody who disagrees with one.

Easy.

[David]

And here we are, as far off-track from discussion of keris as possible, discussing nuclear war. Though admittedly i am as much at fault as any for our diversion you will have noticed in my last post that i also repeatedly call to bring this discussion in towards the particulars that do apply to our specific topic. For instance, if someone knows of petitions or organizations that are lobbying for collectors rights when to comes to antique ivory items i would love to hear about them. If someone can suggest people in specific governments that we can write to to state our cases, please bring that to the forum. I believe we can all save our person world philosophies and political preferences for Facebook or some forum more pertinent to such discussions. Thanks!

[A. G. Maisey]

I agree with you completely David. We are most certainly off the topic of keris.

However, when we begin to discuss the topic of ivory, even though that topic may be related in some degree to the topic of keris, we are compelled to involve ourselves in discussion of cultural and societal attitudes and changes to those attitudes. Failure to do so deprives any discussion of ivory in the context of the present day, of any meaning at all.

The people who will make the decisions in respect of ivory are politicians.

Politicians are heavily influenced by the people, both as individuals and as groups, whom they believe sway public opinion.

Politicians make their decisions based upon their own belief of the expected result of any decision, as that result is perceived by their electorate.

In other words politicians constantly count votes.

Do collectors who have an interest in ivory have any political clout at all?

I would suggest not.

Can we expect controls on ivory to become more stringent in the near future?

I believe that we can. I am not alone in this belief.
A very good friend who is a citizen of the USA gifted me his collection of ivory keris hilts because he is in fear of the possibility that possession of ivory in any form will become illegal in the USA in the foreseeable future. My friend is a highly respected authority on SE Asian art, and a very pragmatic person.

David, in an earlier post I mentioned the pendulum theory. This is not my invention, it is an idea that has many applications and has been used widely in many fields for a long time.
The problem with it is that the speed of the pendulum swing is not a part of the equation. Right now the pendulum is still swinging towards the place where it can go no further in that direction. We can expect that it will be a very long time before it starts to swing back again. By that time I venture to say that most, if not all, people reading this will be dead.

So, we are now in the position of the man standing in the middle of the road with a steamroller moving towards him. Our only decision is whether we move to one side and let it go past, or try to stop it and be crushed.

If I lived in some country other than the one I do live in, I would not identify myself by engaging in any discussion of this nature, let alone a discussion that can be read by everybody in the known world. Government bureaucracies have long memories, and the memories of some misguided activists can be even longer.

We all reap the rewards of our own actions.

At the present time, and depending upon a number of factors, including our place of residence, any action taken to try to stop that Ivory Steamroller is very likely to have a negative reward.

Think before acting.