Pattern Welded Curved British(?) Dagger

[thinreadline]

I would be very surprised if this blade / handle combination had been made in Sheffield in times past . It would be very surprising if a Sheffield maker of a knife blade of this quality did not put both their name and Sheffield address on it . Additionally it is most unusual for English knives of the 19th century to be curved . There is also no crossguard , something which would never be the case in an English dagger , but would be typical in a domestic table cutlery carving knife . The marked curve of the handle is typical English carving knives of the late 19th century , affording a very postive forward grip required for carving a joint of meat at the table. This may be a European knife , I dont know, I have no expertise in non-British European knives of this period , but to me it looks as though it could be a relatively modern blade that has been married to a good quality Sheffield 19th Century carving knife handle ..... along the lines of the handle of the one in the photograph below ....

[thinreadline]

here is another example of a Victorian Sheffield carving knife which has been badly recently remodelled as a 'bowie' knife with the intent to deceive .

[shayde78]

Acknowledging that my two cents are not worth a hay-penny, the Damascus looks very modern to me. I'm curious if others can offer insights into how valid my gut feeling is, and why or why not.

Still a handsome kit, even if reconstituted from spare bits, as thinread suggests.

[Timo Nieminen]

Originally Posted by shayde78

Acknowledging that my two cents are not worth a hay-penny, the Damascus looks very modern to me. I'm curious if others can offer insights into how valid my gut feeling is, and why or why not.

Looks like a modern Pakistani or Indian damascus blade to me. If it was old, I'd expect the stain (used to enhance the contrast) to have been polished off.

[Will M]

I agree the blade looks modern, the handle most likely taken from a carving set either the steel, fork or carving knife.
Looks like an interesting mating of handle and blade.

[thinreadline]

I am relieved that there is agreement with my opinion that this is most likely to be a marriage of a modern blade and an old handle from a cutlery set . These modern blades are appearing at all the arms fairs in the UK and I have seen many examples offered for sale as 'Victorian' daggers once completed with older grips from cutlery.

[kronckew]

thinredline, i think your deceptive bowie was made like that in sheffield as part of a high end carving set, possibly a hunting trousse, similar to the other boxed set. just because it has a guard doesn't make it a fighting knife. it should not be sold as a combat 'tactical' 'bowie' knife tho, even tho it would serve in a pinch. it's cutlery. the original bowie knife was of course, also cutlery, and likely a guardless chef's knife with a partially sharpened spine. a victorian carving set with short guards on knife, and the fork & sharpener steel )or is it a spike) is below. you can buy a very similar knife/fork carving set now, sadly in stainless.

the knife in post one looks new however, may be a new blade in an old handle, that doesn't mean it's bad tho, just not old. the chemical staining as noted would have worn off if it were used and cleaned often.compare the blade/guard join to the others posted, also. the original posted one, the join is gappy and should have been fitted better and gapless or silver soldered closed.

pattern welded steel was also produced in the heyday of sheffield knife making even as the transitions to stronger and better hardened mono steels, and after for presentation pieces.

just because it's pattern welded doesn't mean it's from pakistan and bad. even a great deal of the pakistani damascus is of decent quality. a lot of good modern knife smiths make their own 'damascus' from modern mono steels, high and low carbon alloys. it's just not as good as well made modern mono steels. even real wootz is not as good for a tool/weapon your life depends on. prettier tho, and the best they had then...