Child Keris

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

Detlef, there is a ruler in some of the photos....

Hi David,

I shouldn't comment after a hard working day! I really haven't noticed the ruler!

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Terry,

have a look to this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=jimat+keris

Regards,
Detlef

[Bejo]

Hello,

From what I know keris for woman or a child is called patrem. Do you have any idea how to determine whether a patrem keris is made for a woman or a child?

Attached is my patrem keris. It is 29 cm long.
Thank you,

Best regards,

Joe

[Jean]

Hello Joe,
If the blade alone is 29 cm long, it is not really a patrem but a short kris IMO. Patrem kris blades are usually about 20 cm long.
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Joe,
If the blade alone is 29 cm long, it is not really a patrem but a short kris IMO. Patrem kris blades are usually about 20 cm long.
Regards

I would agree with this, unless your 29 cm measurement is for the entire keris including the hilt.
Bejo, i don't know of any particular way to determine if an actual patrem was made for a woman or a child.

[Bejo]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Joe,
If the blade alone is 29 cm long, it is not really a patrem but a short kris IMO. Patrem kris blades are usually about 20 cm long.
Regards

Originally Posted by David

I would agree with this, unless your 29 cm measurement is for the entire keris including the hilt.
Bejo, i don't know of any particular way to determine if an actual patrem was made for a woman or a child.

Hello,

Thank you for your opinions,
29 cm is from gonjo to the top of wilah.

Any idea how do we call a keris that has smaller size than it's usual tangguh?

Let us say, a Majapahit keris with size 29 cm is quite normal. But, for a Mataram keris 29 cm is quite uncommon. (From my experience, the normal size will be about 34-37cm).

I have tried to compare this keris with other Mataram keris. Although they maybe are from two different Mataram tangguh(In my opinion the small one was younger than the other). The small keris has smaller size of gandik (pejetan and tikel alis) than the normal one. You can check the attached picture below. The normal one has 36,5 cm size.

Thank you,


Best regards,

Joe

[kulbuntet]

Hi all,

I could be wrong(please correct me if i am) but as far i was told, a patrem keris is just a short keris, not a short keris for a woman or child. I was explained that the keris was a man thing, and that one must had a certain age to own one. And that in most area's the women did not own their own keris. Only the head women of the Minagkabau on Sumatra had a own keris. Also a short keris, could be owned and wore by a man who did not wanted to be seen wearing one (personal opinion of a good friend and keris collector in my country), also did he told me that a imam or dukun often owned a patrem. He also pointed out illustrations of Iman Pangeran Diponegoro, were you clearly see him with several kerises that are smaller than usual, and can be considered to be called patrem. I personally do not link the name patrem keris to the ownership by a child or woman, since more then one person confirmed me this not to be correct.

Abut this keris first looks like the mendak is upside down. For the blade the photo's give me the impression that the gonjo is of different material then the blade it self, could be placed later. I have the feeling that the blade could have been longer, and that it was reworked. Could the bigger blade been broken? This is just my impression, and i am not a expert in any way. Just wanted to share this with you, and interested in the points of view of all others regarding this option.

Kind regards Michel
Kind regards

-Edit- P.S. I forgot to mention keris used by woman on Java preforming dance and/or wayang.