Silver Keris

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Roland,
The kinatah technique does not use gold leaf.
Regards

Hello Jean,

thank you for your opinion, it is helpful for me.

From the Internet: "On blades from Malaysia, Kinatah is a relief decoration on a blade of the highest order."


Regards

[Sajen]

I know and have handled the keris Roland own already longer several times and have Roland always told that this keris is very unusual and don't show traditional Bali work, this for dress and handle. The blade is an other object but in short, it's also not what I would think to see by a good old Bali blade.

Like all can see by the pictures Roland has posted is the quality of the silver work a very good one but I am unsure where done. The motives are like stated from Jean already are not Balinese style. But when you look to the pictures carefully (see in down) you can see the wooden core, the wood is old and very dry, this is nothing what I would to see by a recent worked scabbard. Also the overall impression let me think to see a fairly old piece in all parts in front of me.
By my visit to the Hollenstedt Exhibition I have had the chance to handle to more keris where the scabbard was worked in exactly the same manner, I am sure they coming all from the same workshop. One of this other two pieces has had a similar worked blade like the one from Roland without gandik figure and kinatah, the other one has had a fairly good worked older Bali blade. Also by this both examples was the wooden core visible and show good age. So I think that this pieces get worked wherever as earliest end of 19th century until latest the thirties.
Like said before, I am very very unsure where this three pieces get worked.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Hello Jean,

thank you for your opinion, it is helpful for me.

From the Internet: "On blades from Malaysia, Kinatah is a relief decoration on a blade of the highest order."


Regards

Hello Roland,
I mean that kinatah is made from gold sheet (thicker than leaf). Yes, original kinatah blades are generally of high quality.
As you have my book you can find a rather similar silver pendok on pic 3.15, page 201.
Regards

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Jean

As you have my book you can find a rather similar silver pendok on pic 3.15, page 201.

Hello Jean,

yes, so far I can see it it could be indeed the same workshop.

BTW, great book from you, congrats!

Regards,
Detlef

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

yes, so far I can see it it could be indeed the same workshop.

I don't know. From what i can see of the pendok in Jean's book (there is no detail shot of it) it would seem a bit of a leap to identify it as coming from the same workshop. Both the stem of this sheath and Jean's pendok use a vegetal pattern, but from what i can see it does not appear to be the same foliage motif. They could very well use the same silver working technique, but i would have to see Jean's example closer to tell. I do agree with Kai that if we are to make such comparisons it would be nice if Jean could upload a photo or two of his pendok to make that easier.
It is interesting though that both these works in silver seem to appear on what we would otherwise assume were Bali keris even if the workmanship of the dress appears otherwise. Is it possible this silver work could be a product of Lombok? Could that explain the other flavors we are detecting in these forms of dress?

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

I don't know. From what i can see of the pendok in Jean's book (there is no detail shot of it) it would seem a bit of a leap to identify it as coming from the same workshop. Both the stem of this sheath and Jean's pendok use a vegetal pattern, but from what i can see it does not appear to be the same foliage motif. They could very well use the same silver working technique, but i would have to see Jean's example closer to tell. I do agree with Kai that if we are to make such comparisons it would be nice if Jean could upload a photo or two of his pendok to make that easier.
It is interesting though that both these works in silver seem to appear on what we would otherwise assume were Bali keris even if the workmanship of the dress appears otherwise. Is it possible this silverware could be a product of Lombok? Could that explain the other flavors we are detecting in these forms of dress?

Hello David,
I am not at home so I can only show this pic of my pendok. Athough I see some similarities with the one from Roland (buntut), the style of floral engraving and silver quality are different indeed. I got this piece separately from the kris itself but it was fitted on another Bali/ Lombok scabbard. I would also place the origin of my piece to Lombok or Sumbawa (Bugis influence).
Regards

[mariusgmioc]

Hello guys,

There was much discussed about the dress of the keris but very little about the keris itself.

To me, this keris looks very new (max 10 years) and very Javanese and definitely not Balinese.

Am I right?! Am I wrong?!

PS: I find the hilt absolutely fascinating with respect to artistic craftmanship, albeit I am aware it is not in the traditional style.

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

To me, this keris looks very new (max 10 years) and very Javanese and definitely not Balinese.

Am I right?! Am I wrong?!

Hello,

The pictures were made with a modern DSLR, the Nikon D7000 plus a high quality lens. Every picture has seen different automatic algorithms to increase the picture quality, without any possibility of influence by the user. The D7000 doesnt allow to use the raw-data. What I try to say is that pictures of old artifacts taken with a modern DSLR like this are always looks more modern than they are, always!

1: The scabbard of this Keris has been worn without any question with the typical signs of strain in the middle of the scabbard. Who was wearing such a big Kris ten years ago?

2: The blade itself has a mirror surface finish and a mild Waranga but there is corrosion everywhere and it takes some decades until a blade is corroded like this.

During the last cleaning the "foot" of the scabbard became loose and the resin inside the foot and also the wood from the core seem to be much older than 10 or 25 years.


If I see a artifact which is of unknown style to me, I would never judge the age of the piece by pictures. Especially if they are had been taken by an DSLR and if the artifact is made from gold or silver.

Without any question, this Keris is non traditional but this fact alone is no evidence for a recent production. What shall I say, my collection is full of unusual blades, I'm a kind of magnet for unusual artifacts


Regards,
Roland

[kai]

Hello Jean,

As you have my book you can find a rather similar silver pendok on pic 3.15, page 201.

Considering that your book is already sold out, it might be a good idea to post a pic of your keris here, too…

Regards,
Kai